[Atabong]

I'll like you, fellow mashadites to join on this journey, a journey that will seek to throw light on this very sublime subject “LOVE” which many have also attempted to unravel. Some have asked how love can be measured, some have attested that Jesus is love, God is love, Muhammad is love; love is blind, love is like a dove, love is like a rose, love is like a desert , 'let's love one another' etc etc

Can one actually face the subject 'LOVE' in its own merit, less in subjective terms? In my opinion this is essentially why discussions surrounding this subject have more often than not sounded rather like 'shouting with water in the mouth'

Let's not attempt like those before us to assume or assert that love exist (or does not exist) but see if there is anything that can be said or done to unravel these supposedly 'mysteries' that surround 'LOVE'. Without making too many presumptions, Let's request to know if there is any character or common trait that can be found in all derivatives/attributes of love.

Some have in fact said that a man loving atheist is better than a man hating theist; so, one can only but wonder what role hate has got in the life of a theist or rather, what makes the atheist capable of LOVE

Loving parents very easily produce loving Children and vice versa; Is love something that we inherit e.g through our genes from our parents? Now, dollars/shillings etc can also very easily buy some one a lovely home, a lovely life 'garlanded with good Medicare, health and a prolonged life expectancy, Is LOVE something that one can buy with cash?

In many religions, God threatens to severely punish any one who does not love him. What is Love? Is it respect? Is it obedience, Is it a feeling? Is it a desire? Is it friendship?

Personally, I'd rather take what commonly goes around in the name of love with 'a pinch of salt'

LOVE, what is it?

[ernestombayo7]

Loving parents very easily produce loving Children and vice versa

This may not be totally accurate.Loving parents nature love into their children.Social and cultural influence also play a role in determining whether a child will be loving or not.

Is love something that we inherit e.g through our genes from our parents? Now, dollars/shillings etc can also very easily buy some one a lovely home, a lovely life 'garlanded with good Medicare, health and a prolonged life expectancy, Is LOVE something that one can buy with cash?

Your questions have a deeper more profound metaphysical implications.its impossible to talk of "love" being a thing,feeling or chemical process of the brain without questioning things like consciousness,,the soul and mind-body interactions.

From purely a naturalistic view of the world,there can never exist anything like love.A naturalistic and materialistic world view only recognizes physical things/objects.

Infact a materialistic universe does not even recognize acts of love as any different from acts of hate.

In a materialistic world view,we are just bags of biological material and chemical processess.

So if i buy food for the poor,in a material world there i am just a bag of bilogical material passing on,some smaller bags of matter to another bag of biological material.

Things like love are just chemical reactions given labels.infact,there is no real chemical reaction that can be called "love" its all subjective.

But from a Dualistic point of view,where the body has a Soul ,consciousness,then love can be easily explained.

[Dr. Krent]

If love can be an objective substance, then the question would arise, "objective of what"?

I feel (think) that the answer to that question will lead to subjectivity.

Can love exist without matter, space, and time?

[Dr. Krent]

I went through this thread and found some comments to be very interesting.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by Dr. Krent

If love can be an objective substance, then the question would arise, "objective of what"?

I feel (think) that the answer to that question will lead to subjectivity.

Can love exist without matter, space, and time?

Dr. Krent, You are trying to nib this discussion in its bud. What will you say to the rabbi, to the theologian, and every one else who believes that even before creation, i.e. even before the existence of space, time and matter, LOVE existed?

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by ernestombayo7

This may not be totally accurate.Loving parents nature love into their children.Social and cultural influence also play a role in determining whether a child will be loving or not.



Your questions have a deeper more profound metaphysical implications.its impossible to talk of "love" being a thing,feeling or chemical process of the brain without questioning things like consciousness,,the soul and mind-body interactions.

From purely a naturalistic view of the world,there can never exist anything like love.A naturalistic and materialistic world view only recognizes physical things/objects.

Infact a materialistic universe does not even recognize acts of love as any different from acts of hate.

In a materialistic world view,we are just bags of biological material and chemical processess.

So if i buy food for the poor,in a material world there i am just a bag of bilogical material passing on,some smaller bags of matter to another bag of biological material.

Things like love are just chemical reactions given labels.infact,there is no real chemical reaction that can be called "love" its all subjective.

But from a Dualistic point of view,where the body has a Soul ,consciousness,then love can be easily explained.

You say loving parents nurture loving children, and that this is a more accurate way of putting it. I still see it boiling down to the point that Loving parents produce loving children there by raising potential questions of gentics.

That said, your analysis are very ‘soul’ searching indeed but, I’ll like to know what it is in an act that makes it an act of love ‘ is it a feeling, e.g of satisfaction, of gratefulness, of happiness, of calmness or even of peace? Is it some thing one knows by thinking? OR is it something that can only be felt and not explained? Is it some ‘spirit’ hovering over, or being attracted to a ‘good’ act?

Can you please throw more light on LOVE, a dualists’ perspective?

When you buy food for the ‘pooa’ for example, what is it in that act which the dualist sees, that makes him/her qualify the act as an act of love? Is it ‘feeling sorry for another person? Is it a feeling of piety or even crying for another person? Or rather what is it that cause the giver to give and which also cause the onlooker to qualify it as an act of Love? Love, what is it?

[Dr. Krent]

Originally Posted by Atabong

Dr. Krent, You are trying to nib this discussion in its bud. What will you say to the rabbi, to the theologian, and every one else who believes that even before creation, i.e. even before the existence of space, time and matter, LOVE existed?

That is, as a naturalist, love doesn't exist.

What is the term I give to the affection, care, attraction, passion, understanding, and sharing I give to my wife, my only daughter, my mother, my father, my siblings, my best friend, my best pet, my trees, my life?

[ernestombayo7]

That said, your analysis are very ‘soul’ searching indeed but, I’ll like to know what it is in an act that makes it an act of love ‘ is it a feeling, e.g of satisfaction, of gratefulness, of happiness, of calmness or even of peace? Is it some thing one knows by thinking? OR is it something that can only be felt and not explained? Is it some ‘spirit’ hovering over, or being attracted to a ‘good’ act?

I don't think love can be explanied in a single act.but a collection of acts and behaviours towards another person or thing.This ranges from acts of mercy,forgiveness,compassion,gratitude,thanksgivin g,understanding etc.

Human beings define such a collection of acts and behaviours towards another person as acts of Love.

Can you please throw more light on LOVE, a dualists’ perspective?

When you buy food for the ‘pooa’ for example, what is it in that act which the dualist sees, that makes him/her qualify the act as an act of love? Is it ‘feeling sorry for another person? Is it a feeling of piety or even crying for another person? Or rather what is it that cause the giver to give and which also cause the onlooker to qualify it as an act of Love? Love, what is it?

From a dualist point of view,he sees acts like giving food to the poor as an act of kindness or compassion.The inner self(consciousness/soul) has a longing to offer assistance to another person.

As to what makes the dualist qualify an act as being an act of love or not hate,we cross over to the question of God and objective morailty.

A dualist who is a theist,will recognise such acts as acts of love because God created us to have a self awareness of whats good or wrong.We have a moral code engrained in our hearts which makes us aware of evil or good acts.These good acts,can be qualified as acts of love.

So,if you agree that there are some acts that can be qualified as acts of love or hate,then you agree that humans are not only material objects but they have some duality.

The question becomes,

1.Why do we recognise some acts as acts of love and others as not acts of love.
2.Is there an objective standard?
3.If there is an objective standard,then where did we get this objective standard.

From a Dualist Theist the answers for the above questions would be

1.Why do we recognise some acts as acts of love and others as not acts of love.

Humans were made in God's image,and so we have an innate ability to recognise such acts of love.

2.Is there an objective standard?

Yes.This can be demosntrated by the vast majority,if not all,recognising that acts like, Child rape are not acts of love.

3.If there is an objective standard,then where did we get this objective standard.

If there exists an objective standard,then it means that this standard was set by a transcendent being,which is God.

[JINIKALI]

love is like democracy. Its unachievable. Therefore cannot be defined.

[YB*]

Love is an umbrella, whether as a word or in another form as an action. Its also subjective, it can only be interpreted by the receiver to its definition.

Under love, depending on which type, we have everything, care, understanding, empathy, sympathy etc a collection.

When love is directed to parents it morphs to something else, the qualities are different than when its directed to a lover / wife, same as to children etc

Love is not absolute and can be translated by others to mean what you dont, I love a particular female friend, when i tell her this if we are on the same page, she will understand, you standing near us, will think I am romantically engaged.

When one is hurt and is in hospital, when the nurse cleans your wounds, thats duty, sanitation, when your lover does the same with the same care and intensity, it becomes a loving gesture.

Love is what the receiver interprets or deciphers in terms of intent, during her graduation she receives many bouquets from many well wishers, but the flowers from her lover are a sign of love, and the others?

Love can never be defined, because you can never define everybody, situatio, circumstance, relation and many more.

So in essence, love does not exist outside you, but within you