[ATLian]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

actually, just for the record, reggie has used the word fundamentalist in ref to christians before.

I know - but never for saying the Christianity is the solution. And that's why I added "(unless you used the term fundamentalist above in response to something else)".

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by jasakwa

Mohammad what does Islam suggest for a woman who has been raped?I read in shock about an unfortunate event took place in saudi last year.
in saudi arabia a married woman was raped and ended up in prison while the rapist was set free.
what do you have to say about this.

At least she went to jail. God, in the Bible, tells you to stone to death a rape victim if she's raped in the city and didn't cry out for help loud enough during her rape ordeal! It doesn't give reasons for her not crying out loud, it just says stone her to death! Assume you are one of those women who just can't utter a word when in extreme shock, ama if the rapist has a knife to your throat and tells you to shut up or you'll die. If you are violently raped and don't cry out loud enough for others to help you because of that, then you will die a violent god-directed death!

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by ATLian

I know - but never for saying the Christianity is the solution. And that's why I added "(unless you used the term fundamentalist above in response to something else)".

well, i'll let him clarify his meaning.

as for me, if my memory serves me well, i seem to kumbuka him using the term to describe christians who have a narrow interpretation of the truth.

[mo-uk]

Today, islam is been targeted from every corner,the best way too stand up too these people is too learn more about islam, but also learnt important facts from their relgions. so heres a few questions and facts u can use aganist christians if ur in a debate.


* The Bible was never in English during the time of any prophet (not even Muhammad) - because English did not exist until after 1066 AD!

* What was the original language of the Bible?

* Who actually wrote it?

* The Bible does not exist in the original form anywhere on earth

* The Catholic Bible has seven (7) more books than the Protestant Bible

* These two Bibles have different versions of the same books

* Mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse

* 'Born Again Christians' teach concepts that are not from the Bible

* There is no word "Trinity" in the Bible in any version of any language

* The oldest forms of Christianity do not support the 'born again' beliefs

* Jesus of the English Bible complains about the 'crucifixion'
("Eli! Eli! Lama sabachthani? - My God! My God! Why have You forsaken me?") [Mk 15:34]

* How can Jesus be the "Only Begotten Son" of John 3:16? When in Psalms 2:7 David is God's "Begotten Son?"

* Would a 'Just' God, a 'Fair' God, a 'Loving' God -- punish Jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?

[mo-uk]

* What happens to people who died before Jesus came?

* What happens to those who never hear this message?

* What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?

* Didn't God create Adam from dirt? -- So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?

* How can God create Himself?

* How can God be a man?

* How can a man be a God?

* How can God have a son?

* The Bible says "Seth (is) the son of Adam, the son of God." [Lk 3:36]

* Can't God just forgive us and not have to kill Jesus?

* Jesus did not even carry the cross -- Simon Cyre'ne, a passerby did! [Mk 15:21]

* Jesus of the Bible was NOT on the cross for longer than six (6) hours -- NOT three days -- (from the 3rd to the 9th hour) [Mk 15:25 & 15:33]

* Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb -- Friday night - until Sunday before dawn -- is not 3 days and nights!

* Jesus DID NOT claim to be God - or even equal to God!


*** i hope u enjoyed, and will also contribute**

[Muhammad_4]

Originally Posted by jasakwa

Mohammad what does Islam suggest for a woman who has been raped?I read in shock about an unfortunate event took place in saudi last year.
in saudi arabia a married woman was raped and ended up in prison while the rapist was set free.what do you have to say about this.

What I suggest to you, is to read the thread I started here "The concept of sin in Islam". As for what happened to saudi Arabia,
The information I have is that, a woman complained about being raped, but she couldnt produce enough evidence for her case. so the judge condemned her to lashes/prison (not sure), due to the fact that she allowed herself to be alone with men although she is married. This is what I heard, I can not confirm the news either!
Also, you should know that judges are human beings, they can fall into errors too. I think you should read the thread on the Concept of sin in Islam.

[!!!111]

Islam is the answer to what problem?


if we lived according to Islamic pronciples, then life would be as it is in Saudi Arabi (suppression for Women and Shia Muslims and non muslims) or Taliban Era Afghanistan. I'll take ****ty Kenya any day.
Besides, my opinion: Good Muslim = good Arab. There's no distinction between the two facets.. that's why it's a way of life.

pps.. the person that mentioned stoning as punishment for death.. take note that it was in the old testament. In the new one, Jesus clearly said that 'let he/she who has no sin cast the first stone'.

[Ndigila2]

* the bible was never in english during the time of any prophet (not even muhammad) - because english did not exist until after 1066 ad!
so i guess, you won't trust the bible as long as you don't translate it yourself from the original language.
* what was the original language of the bible?

old testament - hebrew
new testament - greek

* who actually wrote it?

some bear the names of the writers, others written by scribes, or close followers of prophets/apostles

* the bible does not exist in the original form anywhere on earth
yes, and so do many historical documents, but we'd rather trust those and not the bible.

* the catholic bible has seven (7) more books than the protestant bible

the protestant old testament is based off the jewish canon which was decided in the council of jamnia in 90 a.d.

* these two bibles have different versions of the same books
depends on what you mean by 'versions'

* mistakes and errors are from the very first verse right up to the very last verse
also, depends on what you mean by 'mistakes and errors' and also what nature the mistakes are.

* 'born again christians' teach concepts that are not from the bible
because born again christians separated the bible from tradition, and rejected tradition. So these gaps were filled up by "making stuff up"

* there is no word "trinity" in the bible in any version of any language
the church is older than the new testament. For you to prove that the trinity was invented, you have to show when this happened historically.

* the oldest forms of christianity do not support the 'born again' beliefs
describe the difference

* jesus of the english bible complains about the 'crucifixion' ("eli! eli! lama sabachthani? - my god! my god! why have you forsaken me?") [mk 15:34]
so?

* how can jesus be the "only begotten son" of john 3:16? when in psalms 2:7 david is god's "begotten son?"
psalm 2:7 is taken as a prophecy concerning jesus according to hebrews 1.

* would a 'just' god, a 'fair' god, a 'loving' god -- punish jesus for the sins of the people that he called to follow him?
salvation isn't about "punishment for sins" but redemption from the fallen nature that causes us to sin.

[Ndigila2]

* What happens to people who died before Jesus came?

They all went to Hades, the place of repose of dead souls, however after Jesus was crucified, he went and preached to the souls in prison, so they were offered a chance into paradise.

* What happens to those who never hear this message?

They'll be judged according to the law written in their hearts.

* What about innocent children who die although their parents are not Christian?

Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to people like little children.

* Didn't God create Adam from dirt? -- So, why does he need Mary to make Jesus?

Through the incarnation, Humanity and Divinity were united in the personhood of Christ. The union of the human and the divine nature is makes it responsible for the restoration of what was lost in the Garden.

* How can God create Himself?

Which Christian told you that?

* How can God be a man?

Why not?

* How can a man be a God?

Why not?

* How can God have a son?

Why not?

* The Bible says "Seth (is) the son of Adam, the son of God." [Lk 3:36]

I think you meant Luke 3:38. Adam means "man" thus Christ is declared to the both "the son of man" and "the son of God"

* Can't God just forgive us and not have to kill Jesus?

The problem isn't the sin, the problem is the corrupt nature that leads us to sin.

* Jesus did not even carry the cross -- Simon Cyre'ne, a passerby did! [Mk 15:21]

So?

* Jesus of the Bible was NOT on the cross for longer than six (6) hours -- NOT three days -- (from the 3rd to the 9th hour) [Mk 15:25 & 15:33]

So was he only supposed to be dead when he was on the cross?

* Jesus of the Bible did not spend three days and nights in the tomb -- Friday night - until Sunday before dawn -- is not 3 days and nights!

3 days and 3 nights is not taken as a literal 72 hour period. Also the way they told time in those days, the evening came before the morning. So he was dead on Friday, the night of Saturday, Saturday, and the night of Sunday.

* Jesus DID NOT claim to be God - or even equal to God!

"Before Abraham was, I am"

His Apostles claimed he was God. You'll have to convince me that the Apostles spent 3 years with Jesus, and somehow they were wrong about him being God.

[jasakwa]

Originally Posted by ATLian

At least she went to jail. God, in the Bible, tells you to stone to death a rape victim if she's raped in the city and didn't cry out for help loud enough during her rape ordeal! It doesn't give reasons for her not crying out loud, it just says stone her to death! Assume you are one of those women who just can't utter a word when in extreme shock, ama if the rapist has a knife to your throat and tells you to shut up or you'll die. If you are violently raped and don't cry out loud enough for others to help you because of that, then you will die a violent god-directed death!

In which world are you living in?You are wrong,Jesus delivered a woman who was about to get stoned by the jews.He set christians free from the bondage of the law.Be realistic and see for yourself just how many rapists are caught and not stoned or lynched.They get charged and if evidence is available they get jailed.The victms on the hand are given comfort and counselling.But muslims set the rapist free and jail the victim.