[bible_reader]

Question 1- Had the spirit been Gabriel, Khadija would have believed Muhammad's testimony and would not have tested the spirit the way she did?

We are told by Ibn Hesham, who wrote Muhammad's biography, that Khadija tested the spirit who squeezed Muhammad. She said to Muhammad:

"Would you please tell me when the spirit comes to you?" When Muhammad told her of the spirit's arrival, Khadija said "Muhammad, sit on my left thigh." Muhammad sat on her left thigh. "Do you see the spirit?" she asked. "Yes." "Then sit on my right thigh." Muhammad sat on her right thigh. "Do you see the spirit?" she asked. "Yes," he answered. "Then sit on my lap." Muhammad sat on her lap. "Do you see the spirit?" she asked. "Yes," he answered. Khadija uncovered a feminine part of her body while Muhammad was sitting on her lap. "Do you see the spirit?" "No," he answered. Then Khadija said, "Muhammad, that spirit is an angel, not a devil" (Ibn Hesham, part 2, pages 74, 75).
What a strange way to test a spirit!

Question2: Had the spirit been Gabriel he would not have given a false scientific revelation to Muhammad.

The spirit said to Muhammad:

Read: in the name of thy Lord who Createth. Createth man from a clot (Surat Al-Alaq 96:1-5).
These words are scientifically wrong. Professor Haanein Muhammad Makhloof, on page 508 of his Dictionary of the Meanings of Words of the Quran, says that the Arabic word "alaq" translated into English as "clot" means frozen blood.
Man was created from the dust of the ground, not from frozen blood. Even the Quran states this fact:
Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay. When I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in prostration unto him" (Surat Sad 38:71, 72).
Here the Quran contradicts itself. In one instance it says that many was created from "a clot" which means "frozen blood," while in another it says that man was created from "clay." The fact is, man was created from the dust of the ground as the Bible states.
Dr. William Campbell in his book, The Quran and The Bible, says on page 185:

As every reader who has studied human reproduction will realize, there is no state as a clot during formation a fetus, so this a very major scientific problem.
Would the angel Gabriel make such a scientific error?

Question 3 : Had the spirit been Gabriel, he would have taught Mohammad to read and write.

The Quran declares that Allah taught Jesus how to write. In Surat Al-Imran 3:48 it is said concerning Jesus:

And Allah will teach him the book and wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel.
Ibn Katheir in his exposition of the Quran (Vol. 1, page 344), says:
The book mentioned here means writing.
We would expect that Muhammad, who calls himself the seal of the prophets, would be taught to read and write. The spirit said in his revelation to Muhammad:
Read; and thy Lord the Most Bounteous, who teaches by the pen, teacheth man that which he knew not (Surat Al-Alaq 96:3-4).
The question is, if God teaches man that which he knew not by the pen, why did He not teach Muhammad how to read and write, instead of leaving him illiterate all his life?
There came a time when Muhammad was in doubt concerning the revelations he received from the spirit. The Quran recorded:
If thou wert in doubt as to what we have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: The truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord; so be in no wise of those in doubt (Surat Yunus 10:94).
The "Book" mentioned in this verse is the Bible, and that shows very clearly that the Bible was the final authority for Muhammad even when he was in doubt. If Muhammad had been a learned man he would have known the truth directly from the Bible. But the spirit left him illiterate.
Muhammad had the right to be in doubt of the revelations given to him by the spirit which appeared to him at the cave of Hira, for that spirit was not the angel Gabriel. If he was a learned man, he would have known what the New Testament says concerning Satan:

And no Wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light (2 Cor 11:14 NKJ).
It is obvious that Muhammad was totally deceived, for he was illiterate, and could not search for the truth as it is recorded in the Holy Scriptures which were available in his time.

[bible_reader]

I do not know what is your question here! everybody knows that IN the shariah of islam does stone married men and women who commit adultery when the proof is established. And this is the purification of sin. You yourself you quoted these words! " a woman came to the prophet and asked for purification (by being punished for her sin). He told her to go away and seek god’s forgiveness". (iI will write in more details on the concept of sin in islam, by allah permission) we are not like you Christians and Jews (where in your bible adulteries are punished like this: Ezekiel 23:45-48 and the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands. For thus saith the lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled. And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords;they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire. thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness".

Dr. Constable's notes on Ezekiel , page 113 the Lord commanded a group of soldiers to attack these cities and to terrorize and plunder them. These invaders would stone the guilty (the punishment for adulterers and murderers in the mosaic law), slay them and their children with their swords, and burn their houses.
Why do innocent childeren have to be slay (as punishment) for the crimes (adultery) commited by their parents? do you call this righteous ? even those slayers of innocent children are called righteous men in the Bilbe!
more to follow.

Mohammad the bible has OT and NT so that we can understand what used to happen in times old and what is expected in our time and the future.
Revenge or retaliation is God's business (Deuteronomy 32:35). In times past the Bible says that God allowed man to take vengeance for himself (Exodus 21:23-25). However, the Bible says that this changed with the coming of Jesus into the world (Matthew 5.38-44). The Bible says that Jesus would not allow Peter nor any of His disciples to retaliate when the mob arrested Him (Jesus) in the garden of Gethsemane, nor would He avenge Himself (Matthew 26:47-56). This fulfilled what the Bible said of Him in Isaiah 53:7, "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not ills mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not his mouth. "

The Bible says that christians are not of the mindset and heart that devises retaliation against others (1 Thessalonians 5:15; 1 Peter 3:8-9). When James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven against a village of Samaritans that had rejected the Lord's attempts to teach them Jesus said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them " (Luke 9:51-56).


Matthew 5:38-39
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

[Muhammad_4]

I will answer all of your questions -INSHAALLAH-.You asked me questions, I answered and I asked you some questions you didnt answer me! so before we move on, you need to answer my questions or agree with me thatthis was the first question)
The Bible allows rape, slavery, the sex trade, and murder!
Before reading what is following, I advise people here to beware that i shall be posting some serious disgusting verses which shows that rape is allowed, so is murder, and so is the sex slave.
So without further of due I shall merely quote the passages:
Judges 21: 10- 24 : so they sent twelve thousand warriors to jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "this is what you are to do," they said. "completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." ........they told the men of benjamin who still needed wives, "go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! ......they kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance......" So note, the men hide behind bushes like stalkers, and they wait for the women and once they see the women they rush the women and kidnap them and then basically marry them! this is clear rape, iI wonder what missionaries Andrew Vargo and Sam Shamoun has to say about this, since the missionaries has a lot to say on the subject of muta to which TheY are always refuted, what will say about men hiding like stalkers and then kidnapping women and marrying them? this is what you call ‘legalized rape’. The fact is no christian can explain those disgusting verses.
Furthermore, numbers 31: 7-18 : ".....they are the ones who caused the plague to strike the lord's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves".
So Moses and his army basically killed all the boys, including infants and just let the little young girls live. Who knows what they did with these little girls. So these passages basically allowed murder and left all the virgins to themselves whom they obviously slept with, many of these virgins were three year olds as well: "....according to the tannaïte Rabbis, Moses therefore had ordered the Israelites to kill all women older than three years and a day, because they were "suitable for having sexual relations."
So would any Christians like to respond? this is very disgusting, 3 year old girls were suitable for sex and soldiers from Moses’ army had slept with 3 year olds! this is utter filth to say the least. Put that on top of a massacre of women and children. This is the loving God of the bible.
Now we shall look at the punishment David got for sleeping with another man’s wife and also being responsible for the ladies husband’s death. 2 samuel 12: 11-14 : thus says the lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives [plural] while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but i will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.' then david said to nathan, "i have sinned against the lord." Nathan answered David: "the lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die.
I wonder what Christians will have to say to this? note the first punishment David will received is that his wives will have open sex for all to see, david’s second punishment is that his son will be killed! what ever happened to the laws in Leviticus where it says the adulterer shall be put to death?
So any christian care to respond?
The Bible allows the sex slave: exodus 21:7-11 the verses are pretty self explanatory. This is a legalized sex slave industry found in the Bible. So we know have legalized rape, and legalize sex slaves.
Here is the laws on rape in the bible, which basically makes it okay to rape a virgin, the only punishment is that you have marry her. Deuteronomy chapter 22:25-29
Another strange rule in the Bible is: "Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the lord your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from israel. Deuteronomy 17:12" the authors of articles andrew and sam could not answer !
Now, is there any Christian who could be kind enough to respond?
The second question was:
We are not like you Christians and Jews (where in your bible adulteries are punished like this: Ezekiel 23:45-48 and the righteous men, they shall judge them after the manner of adulteresses, and after the manner of women that shed blood; because they are adulteresses, and blood is in their hands. For thus saith the lord God; I will bring up a company upon them, and will give them to be removed and spoiled. And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire. thus will I cause lewdness to cease out of the land, that all women may be taught not to do after your lewdness".
Dr. Constable's notes on Ezekiel , page 113 the Lord commanded a group of soldiers to attack these cities and to terrorize and plunder them. These invaders would stone the guilty (the punishment for adulterers and murderers in the mosaic law), slay them and their children with their swords, and burn their houses.
Why do innocent childeren have to be slay (as punishment) for the crimes (adultery) commited by their parents? do you call this righteous ? even those slayers of innocent children are called righteous men in the Bilbe!
*You have to answer these questions or you have to agree with me on those issues. Then we take other issues

[reggie_woic]

the ONLY solution?
give us a break, mr. fundamentalist.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

the ONLY solution?
give us a break, mr. fundamentalist.

Reggie,

every religion states that it's the only solution. What Muhammed is saying is no different from what Christians say about Christ. I never see you calling them fundamentalists for saying that (unless you used the term fundamentalist above in response to something else).

There's a common argument (of course it's a fallacy) that everyone will be in hell. The reason is that every religion beleives that it's the only solution, and only it's believers will end up in heaven, while the rest will go to hell. Since we all don't believe in the same religion, we'll all be in hell.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Muhammad_4

We know from Quran what is the purpose of life.

Please give me a summarised version of what this purpose is.

Also, since the Koran was written in 600 AD and man had existed for years before that, are you saying that before them man didn't know his purpose?

And if you say that man did know his purpose, then doesn't that mean that there are other sources for the purpose of life other than the Koran? Which then makes the Koran just a sequel?

[Muhammad_4]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Please give me a summarised version of what this purpose is.Also, since the Koran was written in 600 AD and man had existed for years before that, are you saying that before them man didn't know his purpose?
And if you say that man did know his purpose, then doesn't that mean that there are other sources for the purpose of life other than the Koran? Which then makes the Koran just a sequel?

Almighty God didnt create mankinds and leave them just like that. He sent to them Messengers, some of them with the books.
Quran is the last revealed book from Almighty God, many books were revealed before it by Almighty God as a guidance for mankind, such as Torah, Gospel, Zabur (psalm) and more before that. So those who followed those Messengers and books knew what is the purpose of life.
In regard to the summarisation of what of the purpose of the life:
In the Qur’an it’s mentioned:
3:190-91 "To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and Allah has power over everything. Behold! In the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding, men who celebrates the praises of Allah standing, sitting and lying down on their side and they contemplate the wonders of the creation in the heavens and the earth with the thought, “Our Lord, not for any foolish purpose has thou created all of these. Glory be to thee, give us salvation from the penalty of the hellfire".
Now here in these verses, Allah has mentioned very clearly to us by first drawing our attention to the creation of ourselves, the different postures of the human body, the different attitude of the human psychology. He draws our attention to the heaven, the alternation of the night and the day, the firmament, the stars, the constellation and then He says to us, “He has not created all of these for any foolish purpose”. Because when you see the design of it, you know it that the design of it is very powerful and very precise. And something very powerful and very precise that is beyond your own calculation and imagination, it cannot foolish. It cannot be just thrown together. If you took 10 marbles and number them 1 to 10 and all of them with different colours and you put them inside of a bag and shook the bag and then closing your eyes reached inside that bag, and I told you, pull out marble number 1 and then marble number 2 and then pull out marble number 3 in order. What’s the chance of your pulling out of these 10 marbles in order? Do you know the chances are? Its 26 millions to 1. So what’s the chance of the heavens and the earth being thrown in a big bang and orchestrated like they are. What’s the chance of that?
When you see a bridge, a building or an automobile, you automatically consider the person or the company that constructed it.
Yet, these are just things that are manufactured by human beings. Then what about the human body; with its massive and intricate control system? Think about it.
Think about the brains; how it thinks, how it functions, how it analysis, sort information, retrieves information, distinguishes and categorizes information in a millionth of a second! And does it constantly. Think about the brain for a moment. This is the brain that made the automobile, the rocket.
Who created that? Who has mastered that? Who plans that? And who regulates that? Human beings themselves? No of course not.
Think about the ocean, the fish, the insects, the birds, the plants, bacteria.
What about this universe? Think about this. This earth is ONE planet in our solar system. And our solar system is one of the systems in the Milky Way. And the Milky Way is one of the constellations in this galaxy. And there are millions of galaxies like the Milky Way. Think about that and they are all in order. They are all precise. They are not colliding with each other
Did all of these happen by chance?
That would be totally illogical and foolish to think and in the least, it will indicate that however it came to be, it is totally outside of the realm of human capability. We will all agree to that.
God, the creator who has the knowledge to design, to proportion, who has created all of these and is responsible for maintaining all of these, is the only one that is deserving our praise and gratitude.
If I gave each one of you here at Mashada a $100 for no reasons, you would at least say thank you. What about your eyes, your kidney, your brain, your life, your birth, your children – what about that? Who gave you that? Is He not worthy of praise and thanks? Is He not worthy of your worship and recognition? That in a nutshell is the purpose and the goal of this life.
Allah the all mighty said to us in the Qur’an: “I have not created the Jinn (the spirit) nor the human beings for any other purpose except to worship me”. This what the almighty says. So our purpose of this life is to recognize the creator, to be grateful to the creator, to worship the creator, to surrender ourselves to the creator and to obey the laws that He decided for us.

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Reggie,
every religion states that it's the only solution. What Muhammed is saying is no different from what Christians say about Christ. I never see you calling them fundamentalists for saying that (unless you used the term fundamentalist above in response to something else).

actually, just for the record, reggie has used the word fundamentalist in ref to christians before.

[jasakwa]

Family is a very important institution in every religion.So since women are principally involved in family upbringing it is crucial to examine how religion interract with women.

Mohammad what does Islam suggest for a woman who has been raped?I read in shock about an unfortunate event took place in saudi last year.
in saudi arabia a married woman was raped and ended up in prison while the rapist was set free.
what do you have to say about this.

[jasakwa]

Every religion states that it's the only solution. What Muhammed is saying is no different from what Christians say about Christ. I never see you calling them fundamentalists for saying that (unless you used the term fundamentalist above in response to something else).

Christianity only says that people who do not believe in teachings of christ will be left out of grace,this means if they live by law,they will be judged according to the law.

There's a common argument (of course it's a fallacy) that everyone will be in hell. The reason is that every religion beleives that it's the only solution, and only it's believers will end up in heaven, while the rest will go to hell. Since we all don't believe in the same religion, we'll all be in hell.

Wrong assumption,just being a christian doesn't guarantee you a ticket to heaven,it is what you do as a christian,your faith.That is why christians were cautioned to look out for hypocrites within.Jesus himself is on record to have told his disciples about the wolf in sheep's skin.