[JINIKALI]

We all know that Jesus christ comes from the lineage of king David and King Solomon. The prediction, through that lineage, that a savior was to be born is a cheap political gimmick that would fetch no water, today. Its a political tool they used to keep the masses in check and to maintain progression of the authority of that Family. Imagine, Kenyatta convincing Kenyans that a ruler with great abilities and wisdom will be born from his Family? Psychologically Kenyans will want to see and touch that ruler, That had been promised to them!; I mean, "the fools" not smart people like Atlian who will lose no sleep thinking about some boy to be born, lets say, two century from now. The tactic applied by Jesus was rather simple yet, powerful. Basically, it was to extend his Kingdom through humble approach. For example, If they(Roman Empire) slap you on one side of the cheek, give them the other and so on and so on. It was simply a struggle of the Jewish people to emancipate themselves from the Roman grip. It was to lead an upside down Kingdom that has spread like wildfire especially to the less priviledged and oppressed masses.

[YB*]

Originally Posted by JINIKALI

We all know that Jesus christ comes from the lineage of king David and King Solomon.

A small correction, Jesus was not born from the house of David!! By the bible Jesus was not conceived by humans so he did not come from the 'House of David'. In the rush to deify Jesus, the bible editors did not consider that by claiming Mary gave birth a virgin they would automatically, not fulfil the prediction of 'the messiah' coming from David's line.

But if Joseph 'knew' mary, (keeping it biblical), to conceive Jesus, then he would fulfil Gods words of giving a messiah through David's descendants - thats the catch 22.

If one cites Mary, all i can say is, Lineage has never been matrilineal in Jewish society.

I would infact challenge anyone to prove Jesus was born (is an 'issue') of David's lineage!!

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by YB*

I would infact challenge anyone to prove Jesus was born is an 'issue' of David's lineage!!

that's easy. the historical jesus was joseph's biological son.
there. lineage issue cleared up.

[YB*]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

that's easy. the historical jesus was joseph's biological son.
there. lineage issue cleared up.

Good one, sasa huyu Jesus who was concieved by spirit bila Jose's 'cream' alitoka wapi?

[JINIKALI]

The jews mpaka wa leo know jesus as a teacher (Mwalimu tu!) nothing to do with son of god. Bring the issue of jesus to them and they'll look at you as if you are crazy.Sasa? yesus ni wao? who are we to claim ati he is the son of god?The muslims who have been ignored by christians (lol!) have concluded in their koran that yesu was a prophet of god but human. The christian hypocrasy mbaka wa leo have not accorded mohamed the status of the last prophet. Can you smell something fishy here?

[grip_daddy]

You will need to prove your assertions.

What makes you dislike Jesus' kingdom in the first place?

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by JINIKALI

The jews mpaka wa leo know jesus as a teacher (Mwalimu tu!) nothing to do with son of god. Bring the issue of jesus to them and they'll look at you as if you are crazy.Sasa? yesus ni wao? who are we to claim ati he is the son of god?The muslims who have been ignored by christians (lol!) have concluded in their koran that yesu was a prophet of god but human. The christian hypocrasy mbaka wa leo have not accorded mohamed the status of the last prophet. Can you smell something fishy here?

Yes, something's fishy.

Who are these Jews who know Jesus as a Teacher? The Jews had Jesus crucified for blasphemy, so from a Judaism perspective, Jesus doesn't even qualify to be a teacher. The Talmud doesn't portray Jesus in any sort of positive way.

If you're going to take the Muslim's word over the Christian's then that's fine. But Muslim's believe in the Virgin Birth and reject Holy Spirit conception (those 2 go hand in hand). Why would Jesus be born of a virgin if he was merely destined to be a prophet?

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by JINIKALI

The tactic applied by Jesus was rather simple yet, powerful. Basically, it was to extend his Kingdom through humble approach. For example, If they(Roman Empire) slap you on one side of the cheek, give them the other and so on and so on. It was simply a struggle of the Jewish people to emancipate themselves from the Roman grip. It was to lead an upside down Kingdom that has spread like wildfire especially to the less priviledged and oppressed masses.

The only reason that statement has any credibility is because you have the opportunity to see the results. If a second century historian claimed the same thing (that Jesus and his followers were planning to overthrow the Roman Empire by being humble) he'd have been ridiculed. Imagine someone claiming that the best way to overthrow Kibaki's Government is to have a massive underground movement of "turning the other cheek." It may work, someone might be writing about it in the future, but right now, that claim would be laughable.

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by YB*

Good one, sasa huyu Jesus who was concieved by spirit bila Jose's 'cream' alitoka wapi?

that one came from the rich imagination of some roman or greek storyteller. take your pick.
Virgin Births in History
Rejection of Pascal's Wager:The Virgin Birth
happy reading !