[lavidanor]

Looking at some of the arguments and reasonings put up here, I can see man's insistence to get answers where God decided not to give any answer.

Being a believer doesn't mean that I have all the answers. Some of us may even have confounding questions if we told that by asking the most damaging questions to put the Creator on the spot we would earn marks. That is why I don't have to speculate answers on every question thrown by people who have rebelled against God.

Asking the same questions over and over again, knowing very well that no answers exist is trying to torture the finite head with infinite issues yet it was not designed to process such infinities is bordering on overloading a gadget.

Meanwhile, God has made His existence the most potent idea in the whole universe. There is no escape from this as the book of Romans tell us in chapter 1.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by ernestombayo7

don't mean to be rude but how is this relevant to the thread?

You brought up morality and god several times on this thread (just read your posts). It was with that in mind that I wrote what I wrote. Hope it now makes sense.

That said, I'd like your response ama comments to what I wrote.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by ernestombayo7

< John 1:1 >>In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)
God is the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15).

Isn't it obvious an uncreated God is outside of time?

Absolutely not. You have unleashed for us the mother of non sequiturs. There is absolutely no evidence of god existing outside time from the two verses you pasted above. If anything, one can argue that John 1:1 proves that time exists because of the phrase "in the beginning".

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Ndigila2

ATLian, the people in hell are tormented by God's Love.

That makes absolutely no sense (he loves us so much that he will punish us forever for a finite sin). And that is a classic Christian apologist response.

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by ATLian

That makes absolutely no sense (he loves us so much that he will punish us forever for a finite sin).

I didn't say hell is punishment from God. I said people in hell are tormented by God's love.

Best way I can explain this is using an analogy:

The relationship between a mother and her son. The mother shows undying love for her son. When the son is 2 years old, the son really cherises this love, the son loves being fed, being clothed, etc, etc. But what happens when the son becomes a teenager? The son becomes 'rebellious.' The mother still shows the same love, she still wants to do the same things, but now, the son doesn't want to be told what to eat or what to wear etc etc. Note that the mother doesn't change, the mother's love doesn't change, it's the son's perception of his mother's love that changes. It's the same with heaven and hell, the same fiery love that will cause heaven is the same love that will cause 'the weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

[ernestombayo7]

Originally Posted by ATLian

You brought up morality and god several times on this thread (just read your posts). It was with that in mind that I wrote what I wrote. Hope it now makes sense.

That said, I'd like your response ama comments to what I wrote.

The question of the thread is,if God does not exist,n atheism is true,is life meaningful?
i went ahead and illustrated why its not and even morality does niot make sense if we are all going to die.pliz read the original post and see why ur post was irrelevant.

[ernestombayo7]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Absolutely not. You have unleashed for us the mother of non sequiturs. There is absolutely no evidence of god existing outside time from the two verses you pasted above. If anything, one can argue that John 1:1 proves that time exists because of the phrase "in the beginning".

and God's eternality shows what?you wanted the bible to say"God is outside time?"

A being who has never been created obviously is outside of time.since space-time is finite.

And i thought it was simple logic.don't you think your post is really childish.pliz stick to the original post

[barb]

Am gonna be honest, i did not finish reading the entire post but i think i got some its and bits so am gonna comment on that.

My great grandmother died when she was 120yrs old, kenyan yrs not liz taylor's kinda thing, i mean she fought with the maumau, she saw it all, the good, the bad and the mistaken, before she died she tried to pass this point to me, 'the purpose of life, is a life of purpose' it makes sense when you take a second and actually think abt it, i believe there is a God, and without him, i wouldnt exist, does life make sense to me?? no, but am trying to find out through religion, i was a catholic, protestant and even a jehovas witness once but i did not get the answer to the good ol question of the meaning of life and other questions, now am a jew, i hope ill get it this time.....but then again, i think you have to live and experience life for a better understanding.....ask me this question in 30 yrs and i will have a better answer!!!!

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by barb

ask me this question in 30 yrs and i will have a better answer!!!!

Are you sure you'll still be around in 30 years?

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Ndigila2

The relationship between a mother and her son. The mother shows undying love for her son.....

I've heard this analogy several times. Here is where it fails.

First, a mother will have a different punishment for her son if he plays in the mud and gets dirty and if she catches him shoplifting or messing around with a girl. Lakini for god, it's the same punishment, there is no degree of sin.

Secondly, a mother won't ground her son forever ama beat him forever because of playing in the mud. With god, you're stuck in hell forever, and you will never ever get out.

Finally, a mother doesn't know what the son will do in the future, and she didn't create the situations needed for the son to do those things. If she did, then she could be held accountable. Like if a mother is a crack dealer ama she runs a brothel, then she shouldn't be surprised to one day catch the kid smoking crack or getting off with a langa. Lakini god created the scenarios we will be in, and he know already the things we will do, so he has to have a level of culpability for the sins man ends up committing.