[ernestombayo7]

What comes to mind when you think of the word infinity?It means having no limits or boundaries in time and space or in magnitude.

But can an actual infinity exist?Infinites in theory do exist,potential and conceptual infinites.

But think of a hotel with an infinite number of rooms with infinite number of guests.The hotel is full.Since every room is occupied.

But what happens when one guest leaves?The hotel now should not be full.it should have one room free.right? wrong!

infinity - 1 = infinity.

infinity + 1 = infinity.
So adding or subtracting from an infinite is pointless.it will still remain infinite.

So back to our hotel,it seems that our hotel will still be full even if 100 guests leave.How can that be and we can clearly see empty rooms?so is the hotel full or not?

Another simpler example is,if an actual infinite past exists,then how long would it take to traverse that past?an infinite amount of time.Meaning that that past cannot be traversed.

If for example our universe always existed,,had an infinite past,then how long would it have taken the universe to reach the present time?an infinite amount of time.Meaning it would have never reached the present time.It would have forever existed in the past.

I think Actual infinites are impossible.They lead to paradoxes.And this is significant because it possess a problem to an Atheistic world view.

It means that our universe had a beginning.Our universe is not infinite.it could not have existed forever.

If matter came into existence with the "creation" of the universe.Then what created the universe?it can't be something physical,since everything i.e physical came into existence with the universe.

A few Atheists are aware of the problem of accepting the conclusion that actual infinites do not exist,bcoz it compromises their world view.it becomes increasingly impossible to account for the universe.

So whats your take?

[Shagster]

Well if my remember well in my first year at uni we did a lot on infinity. Mainly with leibniz's theories and sequences. We approached infinity but never touched it. When we were looking for the limit of a sequence of series sometimes we came to the conclusion that it tends towards the infinity. We used common phrases such as f of x when n tends towards infinity is equal to...

So In the mathematical sense infinity does exist. A really simple function would be f(x)=n+1. The sequence if n goes from 0 to infinity would be 1,2,3,4,.....and you can go on and on for the rest of your life. You will never reach a point when you cant count anymore. So this function tends towards infinity.

In the philosophical sense however, people like Kant really think that the infinities do not exist because we do not have the capacity to feel them or see them or hear them etc. All our senses cannot feel the infinitely magnified object so it doesnt exist. Its the classic case of the tree falling in the forest and nobody heard it or saw it, did it still fall down?

[ernestombayo7]

Originally Posted by Shagster

Well if my remember well in my first year at uni we did a lot on infinity. Mainly with leibniz's theories and sequences. We approached infinity but never touched it. When we were looking for the limit of a sequence of series sometimes we came to the conclusion that it tends towards the infinity. We used common phrases such as f of x when n tends towards infinity is equal to...

So In the mathematical sense infinity does exist. A really simple function would be f(x)=n+1. The sequence if n goes from 0 to infinity would be 1,2,3,4,.....and you can go on and on for the rest of your life. You will never reach a point when you cant count anymore. So this function tends towards infinity.

In the philosophical sense however, people like Kant really think that the infinities do not exist because we do not have the capacity to feel them or see them or hear them etc. All our senses cannot feel the infinitely magnified object so it doesnt exist. Its the classic case of the tree falling in the forest and nobody heard it or saw it, did it still fall down?

thank you for your input.I am in agreement that we can speak of infinity in mathematical terms and numbers.but problem is they are all conceptual,they are not actual infinites.Actual infinites for physical entities cannot exist.

even mathematical concepts of infinity are not representative of any actual real entities.eg when we speak of infinite numbers,the question is infinite numbers of what in particular?if everything in the universe is finite?

Kant is right,we cannot decipher infinitely magnified objects or any actual infinites,.since our sense perception is finite.And so in essence any scientific theory that supports an infinite universe is not empirically verifiable.

but,the real reason why actual infinites are impossible,is because of the paradoxes and contradiction that arise from positing actual infinites.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by ernestombayo7

A few Atheists are aware of the problem of accepting the conclusion that actual infinites do not exist,bcoz it compromises their world view.it becomes increasingly impossible to account for the universe.

What exactly do you mean above? How does saying "actual infinites don't exist" compromise an atheist's world view? What exactly is the atheist's world view?

I think it's obvious that an actual infinite cannot exist. There are many cute paradoxes out there - like the hotel one - that prove this. I'm sure you already know this. So, like I always ask Grip - what's the point of your question? Are you actually trying to gather more information on infinites, are you trying to prove god, are you trying to bash atheists, or what?

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by ATLian

What exactly do you mean above? How does saying "actual infinites don't exist" compromise an atheist's world view? What exactly is the atheist's world view?

I think it's to do with the idea that by confining yourself to only the material, natural universe, you're unable to account for the origin of the universe.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Ndigila2

I think it's to do with the idea that by confining yourself to only the material, natural universe, you're unable to account for the origin of the universe.

Well, it's not the job of the atheist to account for the origin of the universe. Just because someone who is an atheist has no idea how the world came into being doesn't mean that it's the Christian god who created it.

That said, scientists have theories on how the universe came into being, and there is a lot of empirical evidence to support these theories. And none, not even one, of these theories involve the supernatural.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Ndigila2

I think it's to do with the idea that by confining yourself to only the material, natural universe, you're unable to account for the origin of the universe.

BTW I noticed you're now going with Ndigila2, kwani what cut with just Ndigila? Ama some guy has assumed your identity here? What does Ndigila mean anyway?

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Well, it's not the job of the atheist to account for the origin of the universe.

It doesn't matter. Believing that the material world is all there is makes it difficult to account for the origin of the universe.

Scientists do have their theories, but empirical evidence is I don't think so. For instance, I don't think there is empirical evidence for the mulit-verse theory.

[Ndigila2]

Originally Posted by ATLian

BTW I noticed you're now going with Ndigila2, kwani what cut with just Ndigila? Ama some guy has assumed your identity here?

Bilaz, Ndigila2=Ndigila. While debating with Muhammad in the fasting thread, I tried posting a link to an online library to show that one of his references was non-existent. This post kept getting deleted (I think Mr Admin didn't like that website), so I kept copying and pasting and posting mpaka Ndigila lost rights to post because of spamming (which didn't make sense since all the posts were deleted). So now I roll with Ndigila2.

Originally Posted by ATLian

What does Ndigila mean anyway?

Ndigila's my middle name. The Taita word for strength is Ndigi (pronounced Ndighi) so I think Ndigila means the strong one (unless there's some other Taitas in here who know for sure what it means).

[grip_daddy]

If infinity does not exist, and God is said to be infinite, then God does not exist.