[ATLian]

Originally Posted by chotadipo

There is no documented evidence to verify or validate the above assertion. Reminds of the Bonnke and Benny Hinn crusades and the healing of cripples...bwah wah wah!

True. Every person I ever heard speaking in tongues was wailing in gibberish. The day some Georgia redneck who has never been to Africa and who has never heard of the Luo can pray in tongues while speaking in fluent Dholuo is the day I'll attach some credibility to speaking in tongues. They speak in gibberish coz they know that nobody can tell if it's real or genuine.

Just like those faith healers. They never heal amputees or the crippled. I have never seen a deformed hand straighten out or an amputated leg grow back. They only heal those diseases that have symptons that are not outwardly visible! And the people in the audience keep buying this garbage year in year out. WTF? Christians, how do you buy ths garbage? How?

If faith healing actually did work, why don't hospitals have a faith healer in the ICU? Why does the Vatican have one of the best hospitals in the world with the most modern equipment and best trained doctors? Why was the pope rushed there after he was shot instead of to a prayer room?

[rayfisher]

Originally Posted by ATLian

True. Every person I ever heard speaking in tongues was wailing in gibberish. The day some Georgia redneck who has never been to Africa and who has never heard of the Luo can pray in tongues while speaking in fluent Dholuo is the day I'll attach some credibility to speaking in tongues. They speak in gibberish coz they know that nobody can tell if it's real or genuine.

Just like those faith healers. They never heal amputees or the crippled. I have never seen a deformed hand straighten out or an amputated leg grow back. They only heal those diseases that have symptons that are not outwardly visible! And the people in the audience keep buying this garbage year in year out. WTF? Christians, how do you buy ths garbage? How?

If faith healing actually did work, why don't hospitals have a faith healer in the ICU? Why does the Vatican have one of the best hospitals in the world with the most modern equipment and best trained doctors? Why was the pope rushed there after he was shot instead of to a prayer room?

How many healing crusades have you visited?Jesus performed the healings you are talking about and if am not wrong it is written somewhere in the bible that those who believe and obey will perform even greater miracles.This doesn't mean there won't be fakers but even these fakers can be easily identified.

[chotadipo]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

How many healing crusades have you visited?Jesus performed the healings you are talking about and if am not wrong it is written somewhere in the bible that those who believe and obey will perform even greater miracles.This doesn't mean there won't be fakers but even these fakers can be easily identified.

Oh c'mon rayfisher, it does not matter how many crusades we have attended. There is none that has been proved to have actually healed anybody. Yes, Jesus did perform the miracles according to the bible, and yes, the bible is a folk tale. Lwanda Magere won many battles for the Luo against the Nandi, Lwanda magere could only be killed by piercing his shadow. Lwanda magere turned into stone. That is also a folk tale, yet you find it necessary to believe the Jewish one but not the Luo one.

[fiery_preacher]

Originally Posted by ATLian

True. Every person I ever heard speaking in tongues was wailing in gibberish. The day some Georgia redneck who has never been to Africa and who has never heard of the Luo can pray in tongues while speaking in fluent Dholuo is the day I'll attach some credibility to speaking in tongues. They speak in gibberish coz they know that nobody can tell if it's real or genuine.

Just like those faith healers. They never heal amputees or the crippled. I have never seen a deformed hand straighten out or an amputated leg grow back. They only heal those diseases that have symptons that are not outwardly visible! And the people in the audience keep buying this garbage year in year out. WTF? Christians, how do you buy ths garbage? How?

If faith healing actually did work, why don't hospitals have a faith healer in the ICU? Why does the Vatican have one of the best hospitals in the world with the most modern equipment and best trained doctors? Why was the pope rushed there after he was shot instead of to a prayer room?

Atlian may be you have wondered why Jesus had to remove the people brought to him for healing from unbelievers presence.It is because he knew their faith would be hindered by their sleptism such as yours.Faith matters so much when it comes to healing.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

How many healing crusades have you visited?

None. Luckily I saw the light before I ever had to go to one of those hoax crusades.

How many have you attended? Have you ever seen a missing limb grow back?

Originally Posted by rayfisher

Jesus performed the healings you are talking about and if am not wrong it is written somewhere in the bible that those who believe and obey will perform even greater miracles.

People will perform greater miracles than god (Jesus)? That sounds like blasphemy. How can you do anything greater than the way god can do it? Seeing that god has infinite capabilities to perform miracles, are you then insinuating that these believers will have infinite capabilities too?

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by fiery_preacher

Atlian may be you have wondered why Jesus had to remove the people brought to him for healing from unbelievers presence.It is because he knew their faith would be hindered by their sleptism such as yours.Faith matters so much when it comes to healing.

Is there a more sure way of converting an unbeliever into a believer than by showing him a miracle? If it was up to me, I'd have all the unbelievers there so they can see and believe.

You point out my skepticism. Let me ask you, if you heard that a Hindu preacher called Jaspal was healing people through the power of the Hindu god Ganesh, would you believe it? Of course not. But you expect me to believe in your version only because it's your god? Sheesh!

I know that faith matters when it comes this sh.it, that's why it's called "Faith Healing"!

I'll ask yet again coz nobody answered - why was the pope rushed to the hospital after he was shot, instead of to the altar of St. Peter's Basilica? If your dad had a heart attack, where would you rush him, to the hospital with the best cardiology center or to a nearby healing crusade.

I think it speaks for itself that these Christians who yap and yap about faith healing also happen to have the best medical insurance and they'll be in the hospital in seconds if something happens to them. Later on, after the highly trained doctors and nurses have used highly-specialized man-made equipment and drugs to cure him, this same Christian will finally rush to church to praise god and tell everyone who cares to listen how god cured him miraculously. What a freaking load of hypocritical ignorant garbage!

[Ester]

Originally Posted by ATLian

I think it speaks for itself that these Christians who yap and yap about faith healing also happen to have the best medical insurance and they'll be in the hospital in seconds if something happens to them. Later on, after the highly trained doctors and nurses have used highly-specialized man-made equipment and drugs to cure him, this same Christian will finally rush to church to praise god and tell everyone who cares to listen how god cured him miraculously. What a freaking load of hypocritical ignorant garbage!

ATLian,

As Christians, it is true that we should always trust God for our help. (Psalms 121:2). However, this help can manifest itself in different ways; meaning, God will use various methods to accomplish His will.

When we visit a doctor, take the recommended medicine etc.. we still realize that it's neither the medicine nor the doctor that heal us.
There is nothing wrong with seeking medical treatment when we fall ill; after all, it's God who has given doctors the gifts they have to help the sick, likewise to researchers who come up with cures and treatments for diseases.

Even when we pray and have faith that God will heal our infirmities, things don't always go as we would have wished.

The Lord did not even take away Paul's own illness in 2 Corinthians 12:8-10, "Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

There are several scriptures in the bible which show how God can use man-made solutions to fulfill His will:

- In the parable of the good Samaritan, Jesus spoke highly of the good natural care the samaritan who took care of the beaten man, and how the man was nursed back to health.
- In Timothy 5:23, Paul tells Timothy to drink wine for his stomach problems and frequent illnesses.

Sometimes God heals us miraculously through divine intervention; sometimes it is through the prayers of others; other times, He does it by natural means for example through doctors, medicines, or our own body fighting off infections and sickness.

To refuse to use God's gift, because one thinks it shows greater faith is more akin to testing instead of trusting God.

[Nxele]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

Here is the definition;An exorcism is a sacramental by which "the Church asks publicly and authoritatively in the name of Jesus Christ that a person or object be protected against the power of the Evil One and withdrawn from his dominion.Do you believe in exorcism or demon possession?

@rayfisher
Exorcism really exists and demon possession is a true existing thing .
So far I think the Catholic Church is the only one known to perfomr exorcism and it's ONLY done by particular priests in the Church .

[ATLian]

When we visit a doctor, take the recommended medicine etc.. we still realize that it's neither the medicine nor the doctor that heal us.

This is the part about Christians that makes me want to bang my head on a wall. So what do you think heals you? When a cardiologist opens your chest and operates on your heart, how can you say it's not the cardiologist who healed you? Ditto when a dentist gives you a filling? When a person with malaria takes chloroquine to cure the malaria, and the chloroquine cures the malaria like it has been proven to numerous times, how can you say it's not the chloroquine that cured them? Please please explain that to me.



There is nothing wrong with seeking medical treatment when we fall ill; after all, it's God who has given doctors the gifts they have to help the sick, likewise to researchers who come up with cures and treatments for diseases.

Let's get this straight - god did not help those researchers come up with the cures. As an example, god has always known the cure for AIDS. Yet he doesn't show it to us. He sits and watches as millions suffer and die, and as brilliant men spend millions of hours and dollars looking for the cure. One day these men will find the cure. Then you will see Christians come chanting and thanking god for helping man find the cure. WTF?

God created the AIDS virus with it's capabilities, why would he be interested in providing us with it's cure? We are trying to stop the virus from doing what god created it to do, so we're essentially going against his will. Why would he help us go against his will? If god truly was to be thanked for helping us find the cure, why don't Christians ever question why he waited so long to give us the information. I recall in the Bible that Jesus - who is god - thought that demons cause diseases. And this is the same god you expect to tell us how to destroy viruses, wacha now complex retroviruses like HIV? Give me a break!



Even when we pray and have faith that God will heal our infirmities, things don't always go as we would have wished.

If you get sick tomorrow, there are only 2 options - you'll die or you'll survive. God however has always known which option will happen. If god has always known that the illness will kill you, then no amount of praying will reverse that. YOU WILL DIE! Period. If god has always known that you'll survive, then even if you never utter a single word of prayer, you will still live. Prayer doesn't change anything. Zero! It cannot, since god knows all future events already. Plus everything happens according to god's plan and will, so it's almost blasphemy for a mere mortal man to ask the almighty god to change his will!



Sometimes God heals us miraculously through divine intervention; sometimes it is through the prayers of others;

Assume a little baby is dying in indescribable pain from a disease caused by one of the millions of pathogens that god created. Why would god have to wait until people pray to him in order to cure that kid? WTF sort of sadistic god is that?

[KrOoK3D L3Tt3rZ]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

yeah, they do exist. I think all (or most) priests are trained on the basics of
it. When its actually required to perform an exorcism, they first have to get
authorization from superiors - which may lead to the bringing in of expert priests.

This is looking at it from the catholic church point of view. But when you look at it from the protestant church point of view. No special training is required since the power of exorcism is a spiritual gift. There are people with different types of spiritual gifts e.g the gift of discernment, prophecy, miracles....etc. those dont need training neither does the gift of chasing demons (exorcism). Also from the same view, (protestant) one does not need superior authorization to perform this. What if there is no time for seeking authorization? The protestant point of view is.... ''one is possessed, deal with it there and then!''