[Jamalanga]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

what reasoning can justly be given to the delay of the second coming of christ? i dont buy the grace period thing at all because i was born recently, and now as you read this, a baby has been born too.

can everyone understand the scriptures dealing with the times we are now in? can everyone understand that jesus is soon to return? only a select group can understand.that group has just been indentified by Daniel.(Dan 12:9 ends with the words,the time of the end,verse 10 tells us,many shall be purified,and made white,and tried:but the wicked shall do wickedly:and non of the wicked shall understand: but the wise shall understand. They are also indentified, in 1cor 2;14 but the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of god:for they are foolishness into him;neither can he know them,because they are spiritually discerned .rev 1:1 points to the same group. And jesus said to the crowd,"when you see a cloud rising in the west,immidietly you say `it's going to rain,'and it does.and when the south wind blows,you say, ´its going to be hot,' and it is. Hyprocrites!you know how to interpret the appearance of the earth and the sky.how is it you dont know how to interpret this time? apostle looking down to the last days. 2tim 3. There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves,lovers of money,boastful,proud,abusive,disobedient to parents,ungreatful,unholy,without love,unforgiving,slanderous,without self control,brutal,not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash,conceited,lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god,having a form of godliness but denying its power. Church in the last days,would be neither hot or cold.they would teach stories that are not in the bible,the last church age will turn away from the truth,they will teach what people want to hear,the last church age would not teach sound doctrine,the last church would have false prophets, there will be a great false religion.and the false religion would encompass many people.many nations, there are signs everywhere.it is time.

[YB*]

Originally Posted by Jamalanga

can everyone understand the scriptures dealing with the times we are now in? can everyone understand that jesus is soon to return? only a select group can understand.that group has just been indentified by Daniel.

I think the question is - "will it make a difference whether you know when s/he is coming?" If you are good and have been living according to what you believe, and have been true to the teachings you subscribe, whats the hoolabaloo on the day s/he returns??

But if you are being nice because you have been threatened that s/he is coming soon, then you are no better than a non believer.

"Repent the end of the world is near!" - That there is the biggest bull.**** excuse for needing to be "saved", getting saved not because you believe or subscribe to being good and living a christian life, but because you are insuring yourself of the unknown when you die.

Its no wonder, that the kenya population, who describe themselves as beiing religious (true - they are not Godly), massacred each other recently, some killed members they shared the same bench with in church! This is mainly because "inherent good" - being good for being good and its rewards (you can read as karma) is never preached.

We are too used to blackmail conversions - You shall burn forever! You shall die! Your children shall be cursed! God will strike you!! etc etc, you can even see the postings here on how God hates so and so and how he will burn so and so like Sodom and Gomorrah.

If you are getting saved or are going to be religious, please do so coz you feel it in you and understand the sacrifice and challenges, then preach love. (make a special point of watching "Fighting temptations" - Beyonce and Cuba gGooding jnr - and get the message)

[grip_daddy]

If you are getting saved or are going to be religious, please do so coz you feel it in you and understand the sacrifice and challenges, then preach love.

Exactly. Religion and ALL belief systems should be based on understanding then the message be personalised and practised. The threats of hell, destruction, death, eternal punishment are not RIGHT methods for winning souls, but rather, letting offenders know of their destiny.

But in some religions, Christianity in particular, messages WARNINGS followed by pleading for repentance are predominant. These include cases of Jonah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel among others.

A balance should be arrived at especially when dealing with the issue of Christ's second coming.

[Wakhulunya]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

What reasoning can justly be given to the delay of the second coming of Christ?

I dont buy the grace period thing at all because I was born recently, and now as you read this, a baby has been born too.

Hi brethren, Just read matt 24 and you will realise that we are closer to His coming than any other generation. Your signature is very interesting . Just make sure you dont abuse it Daddy.
God bless you

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

ATLian the life and times of Jesus Christ is a historical fact from historians (secular and academic history). You can start by reference books such as Encyclopedia Britanica for better and more trusted sources.

I don't doubt Jesus existed, and I am sure that his existence can be confirmed by multiple sources.

I was challenging the evidence that he is god and that he resurrected and he ascended. That evidence is only found in the Bible. Unless you can provide other sources, it is very fishy evidence since like I pointed out, the Bible is full of many fables and myths and untruths.

[truuth]

The reason why you cannot explain this is because you are trying to see Gods coming as what a human being looks or thinks of it.
God said,you should be born again ,there is a renewing of the mind,where I saw darkness now I see light.You have to have a shift of your understanding of God.Otherwise it will never make sense.
You cannot perpetuate the thinking of man and at the same time equate it to God.You and I worship God in Truth and in Spirit or not.
Its either or.
God is like gravity completely impartial,all you have to do is know and understand HIM.(somehow, just for illustration)You could have a $100 note that weighs as much as a $1 note if you dropped them at he same time,the principle behind these is gravity it does not descriminate so both notes being(assuming)of the same weight will react to gravity the same.They will both fall down at the same speed and distance and whatever else makes gravity possible.
God is the same we can vary and be different and whatever.We are what makes the result different coz we are the varying factor not God.God's principles already are we are the ones who change them.Untill we all run in sinc and realise there's only one being then we all will be contained in Gods universe and in unison and then God can trully be described.

[grip_daddy]

I don't doubt Jesus existed, and I am sure that his existence can be confirmed by multiple sources.



With this you affirm and agree to the fact that not ALL stories in the bible are fables. The same bible contains a person called Paul whose historical existence is not in dispute neither his writings. He particularly attested to the reality of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. At this point I would pose a question:

How do you determine fables and/or facts as you could deduce from the bible?

I was challenging the evidence that he is god and that he resurrected and he ascended.

It is you who should provide evidence that He is not God. We trust the testimony of those who were killed because of their claim of His resurrection.

Thousands and thousands of human beings were killed between 34AD to 70AD and this fact is written in secular history, how do you explain this? Especially when you consider that they being killed for proclaiming resurrection? Amazingly their claim never died but went far and wide and within a span of less than 100 years they had preached all over Asia minor, and the then renown civilization?

Take into consideration those who became converted to Christianity around 40AD, only 10 years after the alleged death of Christ, and that converted individuals were being killed for believing in His resurrection, were they nuts? Why couldn't their killers provide evidence that He didn't resurrect?

That evidence is only found in the Bible.

You assume that the bible was authored by one individual. Even if the authors were related, their writing, seeming contradictions in the resurrection chronology of events, and language use testify that they never sat down to agree on one point of narration.

Having said that, the killings of these bible authors as recorded by secular historians because of the same resurrection speaks for the resurrection validity.

Unless you can provide other sources, it is very fishy evidence since like I pointed out, the Bible is full of many fables and myths and untruths.

I have some materials that recorded the truths claimed at the death of Jesus such as darkness and earthquake. Would you provide your logical explanations that can justly explain why a group so big like Christianity could spring up from Jerusalem where the death and burial of Him they believed in happened?

Under what premises did they preach to thousands and thousands of Jerusalem inhabitants, and these inhabitants who were witnesses of Jesus death, agree to be converted, then most of them be killed?

I look forward to your honest and logical answers to the questions I have raised.