[m kenya]

Originally Posted by ester

ndigila and grip, no, eve had sex with the serpent first, and then her husband adam (gen. 3:6). The result was that she conceived twins. Cain was from the serpent's seed; while abel came from adam. Genesis 4:1 says that: "adam knew eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare cain, and said, i have gotten a man from the lord. and she again bare his brother abel." note how cain and abel are born in close succession. . Compare this with seth's birth in genesis 4:25, "and adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name seth..." the result of partaking of the 'fruit' was a knowledge that they were naked, a reference to the sexual nature of the sin (gen. 3:6-7). In addition, gen.3:16 says that the woman was cursed in childbearing; a punishment befitting the sexual nature of the 'crime.'

ester you are assuming too much, and are running into fantasy. In the order of things, sex precedes childbirth, so if the serpent had sex with eve, there should have been a mention of some kind of "new offspring" ie a new form of life. The fact that you mention that cain is a seed from the serpent, right after the bible mentions that adam had sex with his wife...shows that you are twisting things. Its just logical that if the bible sed cain was born after sex then cain came from adam. And if they were twins, how could they not come in close succession...thats how twins are born even in modern day....one comes out, and then even after 5mins the second one comes... Your argument doesnt hold any water.

[grip_daddy]

Originally Posted by ndigila

A fallen state means a state of spiritual separation from God. If man ate of the tree of life, he would have been stuck in this physical life, in a fallen state.

To mean his physical life could not have died? Or it could have forced God to destroy him without hope of him ever being saved? I take the latter of which the writer could have replaced the word life with death.

[supuu22]

Originally Posted by Ester

Ndigila and Grip,

No, Eve had sex with the serpent first, and then her husband Adam (Gen. 3:6). The result was that she conceived twins. Cain was from the serpent's seed; while Abel came from Adam. Genesis 4:1 says that: "Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord. And she again bare his brother Abel." Note how Cain and Abel are born in close succession. . Compare this with Seth's birth in Genesis 4:25, "And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth..."

The result of partaking of the 'fruit' was a knowledge that they were naked, a reference to the sexual nature of the sin (Gen. 3:6-7).
In addition, Gen.3:16 says that the woman was cursed in childbearing; a punishment befitting the sexual nature of the 'crime.'

wow ester u really have an understanding of the bible. I have a buddy of mine who is an atheist and here is his explanation. That the world began with sin and that no one condoned it. His main focus is on incest. When God created the world, there were only two people , Adam& Eve. So how did all these other people come about unless they had sex with each other???

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

To mean his physical life could not have died? Or it could have forced God to destroy him without hope of him ever being saved?

Okay, I think I understand what you're asking. Are you asking what would God have had to do if Adam did eat of the tree of life having sinned?

[grip_daddy]

Originally Posted by ndigila

Okay, I think I understand what you're asking. Are you asking what would God have had to do if Adam did eat of the tree of life having sinned?

Yes. It seems to me that eating the tree of life would have made it impossible even for God to have killed Adam. That sounds really really weird.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

Yes. It seems to me that eating the tree of life would have made it impossible even for God to have killed Adam. That sounds really really weird.

Okay, that's a question I don't have an answer to. I can only speculate. The only way perspective of this problem ever dealt with is that withdrawing the tree of life was an act of mercy from God to prevent Adam from being stuck in a fallen state for eternity (or maybe 4000 years until Jesus was born).

[YB*]

Originally Posted by Ester

Ndigila and Grip,

No, Eve had sex with the serpent first, and then her husband Adam (Gen. 3:6).

The result of partaking of the 'fruit' was a knowledge that they were naked, a reference to the sexual nature of the sin (Gen. 3:6-7).
In addition, Gen.3:16 says that the woman was cursed in childbearing; a punishment befitting the sexual nature of the 'crime.'

Unfortunately i believe not in the garden of eden story, we humans want to believe too much in the concept of not asking yourselves questions when it comes to religion.

An example here is seen when Ester tells us the first sexual contact in human life was beastiality! And the serpent walking upright! But one thing is for sure it lays credence to my assertion that God did not create Satan, rather Satan is equal to him, since we see he also exists before man as God did.

Secondly the assumption that humans are so different from their sorrounding such that they had originally been meant not to reproduce, even though they had sexual organs that worked as we continue to see.

Nature has it that some life form produce asexually so if from the beginning God did not intend man to reproduce sexually and taking into account he also created the asexual reproducing life form, then man would have produced asexually had that been his intention.

If man was supposed to live in harmony happily ever after, why have a forbidden fruit in the first place, how much did the earth then depend on this tree such that it had to exist, and taking into account the expanse of the earth, did it have to exist only at the garden of eden, heck if God had put it in New Zealand, there would be no sex and deaths

Am always so amused when i see people trying to explain away a fantasy or story, i might as well argue about JK Rowlings "Harry potter"

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by YB*

If man was supposed to live in harmony happily ever after, why have a forbidden fruit in the first place, how much did the earth then depend on this tree such that it had to exist, and taking into account the expanse of the earth, did it have to exist only at the garden of eden, heck if God had put it in New Zealand, there would be no sex and deaths

The problem wasn't the fruit, the problem was the disobedience.

[DEEKAMATA]

The bible was written by kings,priest,fishermen,tanners prince,housewives, herdsmen, blacksmiths, prophets, farmers,generals even beggars.Couldn't there have been a mistake,can it be so accurate?

[YB*]

Originally Posted by ndigila

The problem wasn't the fruit, the problem was the disobedience.

Thats not the problem, the problem is the temptation that led to the disobedience, thats what I was driving at. What was the need for the teptation in the first place.

Dont you now understand the tru meaning of "lead us not into temptation", coz God will lead you to temptation and then punish you mercilessly should you fall. Ama what do you say??