[reggie_woic]

God existed in perfection for billions upon billions of years. What about that state didn't he like that he decided to create human beings? What caused him to imperfect his perfect position.

ATLian, God IS perfection. He doesn't do what is perfect, what He does IS perfect. that's the order of things - God, then perfection because of God.

think about it. constancy doesn't accomplish anything - it simply maintains. all actions require a change: you cannot have an action without a change.

[reggie_woic]

What purpose do the beautiful natural wonders in those planets serve?

can you imagine the alternative? especially with brains like ours which are potentially unlimited to purpose and discovery? -something like a boxed-cage-world? maybe we're supposed to figure out the purpose of all that. who knows where we'll be in the (say) next 10000 years?

[ATLian]

ATLian, God IS perfection. He doesn't do what is perfect, what He does IS perfect. that's the order of things - God, then perfection because of God.

Reggie,

let's not change the English language to suit god. By definition, if something is perfect then you change it or add anything to it, it is no longer perfect. Or, if you now say it is perfect, then it means that it wasn't perfect previously. There is no argument about that.

Since god changed from the state he was in for billions of years (a man-less state) and he created a state that had man, that can only mean one of two things:

- he wasn't perfect before man, and he's now perfect
- he was perfect before man, and now he's imperfect

Whatever option you chose, it brings about an imperfect side of god!

If anything, if god did exist in perfection before he created man as described by the Bible, then he could not have created man since that ruined his perfection! If god had felt a need for man to worship him forever from Day One, he would have created man on Day One instead of waiting for eternity to create man!



think about it. constancy doesn't accomplish anything - it simply maintains. all actions require a change: you cannot have an action without a change.

But a perfect all-wise all-knowing god doesn't need to change because he is already at perfection! He cannot change his mood, his mind, his anything!

[grip_daddy]

ATLian,

If a genius lad passes an examination by 100% marks, does that mean that he is a genius? Yes.

If he passes other 100 examinations by 100%, doesn't that prove that he is a genius? Yes.

Dont you think that a genius is only a genius when he knows the right answers to a problem and at the same time the alternative answers? Even including the wrong answers?

For example, let's assume that the only characters that formed knowledge were 0-9 and the signs for manipulating the characters were only + and -. It would have meant that I as grip_daddy, I know all the available knowledge even without straining. So I can give answers to any inquiries concerning this knowledge at any time satisfactorily.

Now let's say I choose to operate as if 1+3=5 instead of 4, and I know that it is 4, does that erase my knowledge? Does it mean that when an inherently genius person decides to give a wrong answer he ceases from being a genius? He has free will remember.

If I can make 100% efficient machine and at the same time it is 100% perfect, then I go ahead and make millions of such machines, would it mean that I can't make a perfect machine when I DECIDE by choice to make a less perfect machine?

Or if I make a machine that can decide to maintain perfection or lose its perfection, then the machine decides to lose its perfection? If it decides to lose its perfection, does that mean that I am not able to make a machine with ability to choose?

I think your argument for an imperfect God is not broad enough.

[ernestombayo7]

Atlian
Since god changed from the state he was in for billions of years

False.Time and space came into existence with the universe a finite moment ago.
Meaning God was timeless.not in-time.

[reggie_woic]

ok, i see where you're coming from ATLian,
but are you saying that a perfect being, in all its perfection, cannot accomplish
anything without compromising its perfection?

i guess what Grip is also trying to ask is "does a perfect being cease to function"

[grip_daddy]

i guess what Grip is also trying to ask is "does a perfect being cease to function"


Somehow that is part of my questions...to rephrase them in your words let me say:

1. Does a perfect Being cease from being perfect simply because He chose to make an imperfect thing?

2. Does a genius cease from being a genius simply because he chose to give a wrong answer despite him knowing the right answer?

3. Does a perfect Being cease from being perfect simply because He chose to make a thing able to chose continuity in perfection or to become imperfect, and that thing chose imperfection?

ATLian what do you think?

[chotadipo]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

i guess what Grip is also trying to ask is "does a perfect being cease to function"


Somehow that is part of my questions...to rephrase them in your words let me say:

1. Does a perfect Being cease from being perfect simply because He chose to make an imperfect thing?

This is where GOD screws up his "all knowing" attribute. He is perfect, but according to grip_daddy chooses to create an imperfection, which is man, then forces the imperfection to bide by his perfect nature, and if the imperfection fails, of which will be the case anyway, and he already knows that because he is perfect, he goes ahead and punishes the imperfection or chooses to have 'mercy' on him provided the imperfection after that sings his praises infinitely. Your analogy of the genius falls flat here.

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

[2. Does a genius cease from being a genius simply because he chose to give a wrong answer despite him knowing the right answer?

No he does not, but it brings to questions his motives for having given the wrong answer in the first place. Perfection is about absolutness. There are no two ways to it.

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

[3. Does a perfect Being cease from being perfect simply because He chose to make a thing able to chose continuity in perfection or to become imperfect, and that thing chose imperfection?

Wrong question, because the question presupposes that GOD has no bearing whatsoever on what the perfect man will choose after the creation. GOD is all knowing. Before you were born he knew. If that is the case how does he all of a sudden acts surprised when you appear to St. Peter with loads of imperfection asking for forgiveness?

[YB*]

God created angels to praise him and play flutes and Kayambas for him as well as aid him - Am i wrong??

God may have created Adam to praise him (if you believe genesis) but clearly that was not the case, so man was given another function, which is what we are figuring out. Otherwise if our primary function, like angels is just to know and praise him, then why do we die? and then go through the rigours of new life and education of how we should praise him etc keep the old praisers, its not worth the hustle.

Am a simple guy, so lets look at this simplistically, why buy a radio to entertain myself and smash it periodically and get a another one??

[reggie_woic]

maybe you can try answering this Chotadipo:
does a perfect being cease to function?