[infinitepyro]

Originally Posted by ndigila

Jesus said to worship God in Spirit and in Truth. If you worship God in Spirit and not in Truth, then you are simply having a love affair with a creation formed by misinterpreting scripture. Furthermore, the Bible says that the Church is the pillar and ground of Truth.(1 Tim 3:15) So different churches with different beliefs is already problem.

I think not. First off, I have always doubted the epileptic split personalitied enigma Christians call Paul or Saul [depending on what point in time they refer to him; whether before or after "conversion"] and his character. He strikes me as the greatest deciver of all times. From very bad to very good in no time?! Yeah right. And the only influence to his conversion was an epileptic fit?!!! Saul (I prefer this name better myself) in the book of Timothy claims the church is the pillar and ground of truth. Isnt that statement laughable already? Dint an educated man like Saul not notice the similarities between Christianity & other pagan religions of the day?

Secondly, how does one worship God in spirit and not in truth? Actually, how does one worship God in spirit in the first place? N why dont they mention worshippin God in Truth and not in Spirit? I really dont get what God was tryin to say through His son Jesus Christ.

N finally, why the hell should we follow the Bible like it is Gods word? He never even alludes to commandin a standard Bible written for His children (ignorin ALL scriptural faults n outright absurdities of this holy book). I hold the writers of the Bible in great suspect. People who see lions with bear claws n eagle wings and have the audacity to write about them are surely not normal are they? Or its okay to read the ramblings of deranged minds in the name of religion?

From personal opinion, I don't think that all denominations are worshipping the same God. The Jesus who's going to rapture Christians can't be the same Jesus who's going to let Christians endure tribulation. The Holy Spirit who gives people the gift of speaking in tongues can't be the same Holy Spirit who tells Christians that speaking in tongues was a gift that ceased in the first century. What's really interesting is that in the past, particular denominations would consider others are heretics. In the early 90s Baptists would not consider Methodists Christians. But now, due to the Charismatic movement, all denominations are seen as essentially Christian (except of course, the Catholic and Orthodox, the two denominations that existed before all the rest).

From personal opinion, religions were invented to screw with peoples minds and the God of all peoples (Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Atheists alike) will not just stand by and watch his children burn in hell for committin a sin or two,...IF there really is a hell/gehena etc.

Yes. I don't think anyone will knowingly worship the beast.

Dont ppl knowingly worship the devil?

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

Sabbath is the Seventh day rest according to Genesis 2:1-3 which coincides with Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

Actually, Sabbath is any of the seven days in a week specifically set aside for the LORD. Genesis 2 doesnt say that YHWH started countin from Monday or frm Sunday or wotevr, it just sez the seventh day.

Y is this relevant? Tha seal of the LORD. The most important commandment. It is stil whole n branded on those who set aside any one day (whether SDA, Christian or Islam etc) for the worship of the LORD.

[grip_daddy]

The error of the Church

What is the reasoning attributed to Catholic's acts of torturing, burning, anguishing, persecuting and even hunging the erratics? The early church gave excommunication as a way to deal with those that had fallen away from the faith, but not persecution.

Those persecuted were not the mainstream orthodox churches, contrary to what Jesus had said in the sermon of the mount and the foretelling of the end times events. Persecution was stated by Him like a promise. First, do you think any persecuting power is from God? And, do you think if a persecuting power is targeting a particular group, then the group spared means complicence?

At least those who were persecuted shared something in common by the apostles; that they were both persecuted by a people who thought that they were doing God's work.

Finally, asking me to prove where the church deviated from the truth is same as asking a Jew where they went wrong, they wont admit. Jews are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah to rule over them.

[grip_daddy]

Actually, Sabbath is any of the seven days in a week specifically set aside for the LORD.

The Jews would kill you if you reasoned like that. The Jesus was crucified is known as the day of preparation, the day he layed on the tomb known as the Sabbath day, and the day he resurrected is agreed to have been on the first day. These days could not have been any day (see Luke 23).

Genesis 2 doesnt say that YHWH started countin from Monday or frm Sunday or wotevr, it just sez the seventh day.



You will need to understand that there was a specific day when God said, let there be light, and it was so...and the evening and the morning were the first day. The process continued until the sixth day, and on the Seventh day God rested and that's why the Sabbath commandment is tied to memory of creation. Unless you can prove that the first day was anyday of the week; meaning if you can prove that the day God said let be light was equally as Tuesday as it was Friday, your argument cannot hold. Or is the numbering of days in Genesis 1 from 1 to 7 is insignificant?

Y is this relevant?

It is the only way to worship God as the creator.

Tha seal of the LORD. The most important commandment. It is stil whole n branded on those who set aside any one day (whether SDA, Christian or Islam etc) for the worship of the LORD.

Those who worship on Sunday dont brand the word Sabbath on themselves. On the contrary, they admit that the Jews Sabbath falls on Saturday but Jesus' resurrection on Sunday mandates them to commune on the Lord's day.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

The error of the Church

What is the reasoning attributed to Catholic's acts of torturing, burning, anguishing, persecuting and even hunging the erratics? The early church gave excommunication as a way to deal with those that had fallen away from the faith, but not persecution.

Those persecuted were not the mainstream orthodox churches, contrary to what Jesus had said in the sermon of the mount and the foretelling of the end times events. Persecution was stated by Him like a promise. First, do you think any persecuting power is from God? And, do you think if a persecuting power is targeting a particular group, then the group spared means complicence?

Once again Grip, I'm not dealing with the Catholic church, I'm dealing with the Orthodox church. In any case, while I don't support the persecution of heretics, there is no evidence that those heretics were the true followers of Christ's teachings.

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

Finally, asking me to prove where the church deviated from the truth is same as asking a Jew where they went wrong, they wont admit. Jews are still waiting for the coming of the Messiah to rule over them.

No, no, no, Grip. What i'm asking for is simple: If you claim that the Orthodox church fell into paganism, you have to be able to show at which point in history (even if it's a slow progression) as to when this addition occurred. All you've done so far is claimed that they've fallen into paganism because they have doctrines which you personally disagree with.

[ndigila]

I think not. First off, I have always doubted the epileptic split personalitied enigma Christians call Paul or Saul [depending on what point in time they refer to him; whether before or after "conversion"] and his character. He strikes me as the greatest deciver of all times. From very bad to very good in no time?! Yeah right. And the only influence to his conversion was an epileptic fit?!!! Saul (I prefer this name better myself) in the book of Timothy claims the church is the pillar and ground of truth. Isnt that statement laughable already? Dint an educated man like Saul not notice the similarities between Christianity & other pagan religions of the day?

Your acting as if Paul had that "epileptic fit" and then branched out on his own without conversing with the existing Christians. The closest accomplices of Jesus endorsed Paul as the apostle to the Gentiles.

Secondly, how does one worship God in spirit and not in truth? Actually, how does one worship God in spirit in the first place? N why dont they mention worshippin God in Truth and not in Spirit? I really dont get what God was tryin to say through His son Jesus Christ.

Sometime back Youngben gave a very good analogy. If you're Waiyaki Way on a Range Rover cruising at 160 kph and you're destination is Mombasa, you're never going to make it. If you're very dedicated (worshipping in spirit) but are not doing it the way Jesus and his apostles taught (worshipping in truth) then it really doesn't matter.

[grip_daddy]

All you've done so far is claimed that they've fallen into paganism because they have doctrines which you personally disagree with.

Since this is on Sabbath thread, please explain, or give evidence, if by whatever means/circumstances the apostolic church worked on Sabbath. Let me phrase it that the Sabbath commandment is a very big reason why I cant believe the orthodox church. So if you have evidence that the Sabbath day was profaned by the apostles by working on that day, I'll reconsider my approach to biblical study.

[infinitepyro]

Actually, Sabbath is any of the seven days in a week specifically set aside for the LORD.

The Jews would kill you if you reasoned like that. The Jesus was crucified is known as the day of preparation, the day he layed on the tomb known as the Sabbath day, and the day he resurrected is agreed to have been on the first day. These days could not have been any day (see Luke 23).


For all we know, Yahshua might have been crucified on Saturday. It is impossible to pin the exact date in time he died let alone figure out what day it was. Try lookin at Sabbath from my point of view.



Genesis 2 doesnt say that YHWH started countin from Monday or frm Sunday or wotevr, it just sez the seventh day.



You will need to understand that there was a specific day when God said, let there be light, and it was so...and the evening and the morning were the first day. The process continued until the sixth day, and on the Seventh day God rested and that's why the Sabbath commandment is tied to memory of creation. Unless you can prove that the first day was anyday of the week; meaning if you can prove that the day God said let be light was equally as Tuesday as it was Friday, your argument cannot hold. Or is the numbering of days in Genesis 1 from 1 to 7 is insignificant?


Yes there was a specific day YHWH said let there be light, it was actually the first day as in the VERY FIRST DAY. (Why would YHWH start creation on a Monday -the hangover day- when Sunday would have been more fitting? ) And as I said before, no one can prove beyond reasonable doubt what day the first day of the week was and that is my argument. U'll find that it holds as much water as the earth did on the day before day one...



Y is this relevant?

It is the only way to worship God as the creator.



I thought that the only way to worship YHWH was in Spirit and in truth?



Tha seal of the LORD. The most important commandment. It is stil whole n branded on those who set aside any one day (whether SDA, Christian or Islam etc) for the worship of the LORD.

Those who worship on Sunday dont brand the word Sabbath on themselves. On the contrary, they admit that the Jews Sabbath falls on Saturday but Jesus' resurrection on Sunday mandates them to commune on the Lord's day.



The only reason Protestants and their like dont exactly call Sunday Sabbath is cz it would spark friction amongst other believers about who is right & who is wrong, defeatin the whole purpose of worshippin...going to heaven. However, u will find that Protestants and their like treat Sunday as their Sabbath and indeed believe Sunday is Sabbath. Furthermore, we all know that its the Papal office who seeked to change times n seasons when they changed the day of worship to sunday officially but who's to say that that day had not been changed before. Why were Pagans worshippin on Sunday? Cz it was called Sun day? Dint pagan worship spring in defiance 2 true worship back then as it does these days? Was it not a day they wud worship alongside true worshippers so that they seem to b on the right track? History repeats itself tirelessly over n over, just how many times it does repeat itself, we arent sure.

[grip_daddy]

Infinite,

I dont think historians have lost track of time since the death of Christ. The Jews, the Protestants, The Secular historians, everyone, agrees that Jesus died on Friday evening.

About True worship, read Ezekiel 20:12,20 and Revelation 12:17; 14:12 etc. The problem with protestants is that they have made unto themselves commandments they call commandments of God.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

Since this is on Sabbath thread, please explain, or give evidence, if by whatever means/circumstances the apostolic church worked on Sabbath. Let me phrase it that the Sabbath commandment is a very big reason why I cant believe the orthodox church. So if you have evidence that the Sabbath day was profaned by the apostles by working on that day, I'll reconsider my approach to biblical study.

I don't think they worked on Sabbath. Anyway, I trust St Ignatius and the ante nicene fathers' testimony when they say that the Christians worshipped on Sunday to commemorate the day of resurrection.

Man, you're always online. Whenever I log in the light next to your jina is green.