[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Because you are an adult, you should be able to make those choices for yourself.

Man, you're not answering the question. Why should an adult's choice matter more than his health?

Originally Posted by ATLian

If we were to make illegal all things that harm people who intentionally do them, do you realize how long that list would be.

It's not about automatically illegalizing everything, its about weighing out pros and cons, and moderation.

Originally Posted by ATLian

Don't you think that you should be allowed to eat 15 Big Macs a day if you wanted to, even though the resulting obesity-related diseases you get would most certainly kill you?

If you can stomach 15 Big Macs. Do you recall a certain lawsuit in which a woman sued McDonalds for making her kids fat?

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Let's say alcohol trade was legalized. A jamaa can walk into any convenient store, show ID and walk out with some alcohol. Eventually, this jamaa gets addicted to alcohol. Alcohol begins to take a toll on his body and then his productivity at jobo reduces. He eventually gets fired. Now with no source of income, he relies on his buddies to satisfy his dangerous addiction. Eventually his buddies will kataa. (Now if his buddies are also alcohol addicts, that even compounds the problem). What happens next? The probable option is to resort to criminal activity. He'll either try to break into the convenient stores to steal alcohol ama steal money to buy alcohol. He eventually ends up in jail.

I've replaced drugs and heroine in your above post with alcohol.

In the prohibition era, the argument you used above is the same that was used by those against legalizing alcohol.

Fast forward to today, and see how things are. of course there are some people who are messed up coz of alcohol, but they are a tiny minority. It's a fact that most people do what they are meant to do - go to work, school, etc - despite alcohol being legal and available all over.

See where your argument fails.

Your argument depends on whether alcohol addiction and heroine addiction have the same consequences on your body. With regards to alcohol, moderation is possible, but is moderation possible with heroine?

Originally Posted by ATLian

One last question since you're very against legalizing of drugs. Assume kesho when chilling in your backyard, you realize that licking the bark of the tree in your yard can make you as high as a kite. Are you then suggesting that you would be OK with the government immediately making licking of those trees illegal?

Again, Atlian, it isn't an automatic process, its about weighing out pros and cons in certain situations, otherwise morphine wouldn't be used in hospitals.

[ATLian]

Your argument depends on whether alcohol addiction and heroine addiction have the same consequences on your body. With regards to alcohol, moderation is possible, but is moderation possible with heroine?

This is the part I don't get. Why do you want society to regulate what you can do with your body? If you want to lick toads and get high and do so in the privacy of your home where no-one will get harmed, why should the government stop you? If you want to bungee jump or sky dive or race NASCAR cars at 190 MPH, why should the government stop you? Why do you think that they have a right to your body when you are harming nobody but yourself? And if they can police your body and stop you from doing drugs coz they harm you, why shouldn't they be allowed to police other things you can do to your body e.g. how much fat you can eat, how many cigarettes you can smoke, etc.

If they were so serious on this war on drugs, why are cigarettes legal? Read this quote - Tobacco products are responsible for more than 400,000 deaths annually due to cancer, respiratory illness, heart disease, and other health problems. Cigarettes kill more Americans each year than AIDS, alcohol, car accidents, murders, suicides, illegal drugs, and fires combined. Smokers who die as a result of smoking would have lived, on average, 12 to 15 years longer if they had not smoked. Instead of spending gabzillions chasing drug peddlers, why not spend it on cigarretes?

Please give me a good reason why cigarretes aren't illegal? Booze also causes untold suffering to many, why is it legal? Why do you think it's OK for you to be able to sit in your house and consume a 12 pack, a bottle of whisky and 2 packs of cigarettes a day for the next 15 months, but you should go to jail for 5 years if you had more than an ounce of crack cocaine?



Again, Atlian, it isn't an automatic process, its about weighing out pros and cons in certain situations, otherwise morphine wouldn't be used in hospitals.

Again, if you could get access to morphine, why shouldn't you be allowed to use it recreationally or to heal yourself. Do you know that if you were in serious pain, and you got hold of some morphine bila prescription, and you injected yourself and cured the pain, you'd be liable to 15 years in jail if busted? How does that make sense?

[grip_daddy]

ATLian,

Do you think doing yourself what you want with your body will harm no second and third parties? I have a neighbour whose son (29 years old) is incapacitated by drugs. The emotional and psychological stress he is causing his family, neighbours, friends and relatives, including financial strain, is unimaginable. Just think of families with the same nightmares currently when the drugs are still illegal, and extrapolate when the drugs shall be legalised, how many families will be emotionally, psychologically, and financially handicapped?

Your fight for free choice (legalization of immorality) will surely break down the society. Then? You will say after all religion was right in providing restrictions?

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

This is the part I don't get. Why do you want society to regulate what you can do with your body? If you want to lick toads and get high and do so in the privacy of your home where no-one will get harmed, why should the government stop you? If you want to bungee jump or sky dive or race NASCAR cars at 190 MPH, why should the government stop you? Why do you think that they have a right to your body when you are harming nobody but yourself? And if they can police your body and stop you from doing drugs coz they harm you, why shouldn't they be allowed to police other things you can do to your body e.g. how much fat you can eat, how many cigarettes you can smoke, etc.

Atlian, when I ask you why an adult's decision matters more than his health, you answer by saying because he's an adult.

Whenever someone in this forum questions how can there be morality without God, the answer usually given is that society establishes the moral standards. How is society a moral standard if it doesn't question human choices?

Originally Posted by ATLian

If they were so serious on this war on drugs, why are cigarettes legal? Read this quote - Tobacco products are responsible for more than 400,000 deaths annually due to cancer, respiratory illness, heart disease, and other health problems. Cigarettes kill more Americans each year than AIDS, alcohol, car accidents, murders, suicides, illegal drugs, and fires combined. Smokers who die as a result of smoking would have lived, on average, 12 to 15 years longer if they had not smoked. Instead of spending gabzillions chasing drug peddlers, why not spend it on cigarretes?

I have no idea why cigarettes are legal. The proponents of legalizing weed use this argument. I believe if weed is illegal, then cigarettes should be illegal.

Originally Posted by ATLian

Please give me a good reason why cigarretes aren't illegal? Booze also causes untold suffering to many, why is it legal? Why do you think it's OK for you to be able to sit in your house and consume a 12 pack, a bottle of whisky and 2 packs of cigarettes a day for the next 15 months, but you should go to jail for 5 years if you had more than an ounce of crack cocaine?

I don't believe cigarettes should be legal. With regards to alcohol, moderation is possible. It's possible to be a regular user of alcohol without becoming an alcoholic, but with crack and heroine, i'm not sure that's possible.

Originally Posted by ATLian

Again, if you could get access to morphine, why shouldn't you be allowed to use it recreationally or to heal yourself.

Again, its an issue of weighing out pros and cons, the highly addictive properties of Morphine makes it a controlled substance.

Originally Posted by ATLian

Do you know that if you were in serious pain, and you got hold of some morphine bila prescription, and you injected yourself and cured the pain, you'd be liable to 15 years in jail if busted? How does that make sense?

Morphine is only used for severe chronic pain (a kind of pain that's a serious sign you should be in hospital). So going out of your way to obtain morphine bila prescription isn't a sign that you're doing it to relieve pain.