[grip_daddy]

ATLian,

Why should dogging spouses do so discretely yet they are free thinkers? Why, in a world of atheism and free thoughts, marital promiscuity be an issue publicly whereas two same sex consenting adults be a non issue? I think double standards are being applied here.

[grip_daddy]

You are a rational thinker but not when it comes to your religion! You actually believe that women are inferior to men only because your bible said so! etc.

I believe in the bible because it has rational and articulate lifestyle guidelines to true happiness and joyful experience (when you love your neighbor as yourself and million other advices that are currently being scientifically ratified...read Psalms and Proverbs). That if women subject themselves to loving men the society would be founded on stronger foundation (I had given a true example about a woman highly educated but allows her non educated husband to say the final yes and no on family matters and are happily raising integral children), and I also believe in the bible because its historic prophecies came to pass as was recorded-something absent in other religious books, and finally, I believe in the bible because there are scientifically documented facts in agreement to the historic happenings as documented in that bible. So, it is equally rational to deduce that other statements beyond scientific research are true.

I have also seen that agonistic, atheistic and other schools of thoughts are deficient when matters pertaining to heart, love, self worth, and people's respect are considered.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Jibril Cessay

Religion doesn't give anyone the chance to be a free thinker. Religion is not very rational especially when it come to deciding whether a deed should be done to save money or assuage a pain.

I concur. Any time you apply free thought to religion, you are accused of various things ranging from heresy to blasphemy to being an unbeliever, etc.

[Msoto]

It is impossible for any human being to be a free thinker.

Thinking of and in itself is influenced by the environment we grew up.

Thinking of and in itself is influenced by our hereditary.

Ndigila, a lot of research has been carried out to show low correlations between homosexuality and hereditary. To understand homosexuality one must be aware that it has 3 components, cognition, social and hereditary. Now no one can claim there to be a 'gay gene' there isn't one. There is a low correlation of some people to deviate towards being gay, if they also grew up in a gay-like atmosphere and brain-washed themselves with gay attitudes.

An atheist is not a free thinker, atlian, type r has summarized it for you....read his reply and let it sink in first. This is why i say there are few if any free thinkers...when people hold to their philosophical positions and refuse to acknowledge or integrate those of others then they are already mentally enslaved. Because when presented when any situation, you immediately view it from an 'anti-god fanatic' perspective instead of crossing the other side and view it from a 'a god believer' perspective.

[ATLian]

How does acquired knowledge contribute to free thinking? For example, how does an ignorant unschooled non-religious fella exercise his free thinking capabilities?

There's a saying that goes "the more uneducated you are, the more likely you are to believe blindly". Unfortunately for this fella in your example, since he's unschooled and ignorant, it will be very hard for him to apply science and logic to his thinking. Therefore it would be quite difficult for him to become a freethinker in the classic definition of the word. But that doesn't mean he can't be a freethinker. I recall that in Chinua Achebe's "Things Fall Apart", there was someone (I forget who) who exercised some form of freethought. He'd (privately) condemn acts like killing twins and such, even though they were part of his tribe's religious and customary dogma. Maybe stuff like his conscience can help him acquire free thinking capabilities, ama experience (like a guy from the "Things Fall Apart" era doing something so taboo that it's meant to kill him, then he ends up not dying, thus proving to him that that dogma is rubbish!)

[ATLian]

ATLian,

Why should dogging spouses do so discretely yet they are free thinkers?

Grip,

first of all, dogging and freethinking have nothing to do with each other. The fact that one is a freethinker isn't what makes one dog. If that was the case, Christians wouldn't dog, and as we very well know, Christians dog like there's no tomorrow!

Again, freethinking means you approach things using science and logic and not through dogmas and such. Let's debate dogging using logic. Here are the cons of dogging - risk of disease to you and your partner, risk of making other women pregnant, risk of losing your partner if she discovers and leaves you, risk of losing your kids if the judge sides with your partner in a diovrce, risk of public embarassment and losing your career (like the NY governor), risk of being ostracized by family, friends, relatives, etc, if you're busted, etc. Here are the pros of dogging - being with the same partner for years can get boring and as they say "change is the spice of life", maybe your partner sucks in bed so the new chic can just f.uck your brains out and make you a happy man again, etc. A freethinker would asses those issues and chose not to dog, and if he chose to dog, he'd do it in private knowing full well what the repercussions of being busted were.



Why, in a world of atheism and free thoughts, marital promiscuity be an issue publicly whereas two same sex consenting adults be a non issue? I think double standards are being applied here.

Because in marriage you make a contract to be faithful to each other. Just because I don't believe in a god doesn't mean that I want my wife to be running up and down Atlanta f.ucking everyone. That's why I won't dog, and why I'd react negatively if my wife dogged.

[ATLian]

I have also seen that agonistic, atheistic and other schools of thoughts are deficient when matters pertaining to heart, love, self worth, and people's respect are considered

There is no atheistic school of anything, since the only thing that binds atheists is the lack of belief in a god. Just because some atheists then do X doesn't make X a part of atheism.

That said, what are these deficient things you saw regarding atheism? What about atheists make you think they differ from you (a Christian) when it comes to love, self worth, respecting other people, etc?

[ATLian]

It is impossible for any human being to be a free thinker.
I disagree. Using the definition I pasted above, it is very possible for someone to believe that "beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logic and not be influenced by emotion, authority, tradition, or any dogma".



An atheist is not a free thinker, atlian, type r has summarized it for you....read his reply and let it sink in first.

I did read his reply. I disagree with some of what he says (since I don't believe that you can be agnostic - you're either a theist or an atheist). But most atheists are undisputedly freethinkers when it comes to religion!



Because when presented when any situation, you immediately view it from an 'anti-god fanatic' perspective instead of crossing the other side and view it from a 'a god believer' perspective

Interesting how you put "fanatic" with anti-god. When did you last see a fanatical atheist? Look at all the wars going on around the world and tell me of any that has an atheist cause. It's the religious nuts who are always killing each other in the name of their religons!

[Msoto]

I disagree. Using the definition I pasted above, it is very possible for someone to believe that "beliefs should be formed on the basis of science and logic and not be influenced by emotion, authority, tradition, or any dogma".

Thinking is not something that happens in isolation. You cannot just change how you grew up, what you have seen, what you have been exposed to and then say it doesn't influence you. It does....and in so doing influences how you think.

I would say...you did not start out as an Atheist instead you started out as a christian but you disagreed with many of the views that christians had. You grew up around 'holy-jos' that were quick to point our excerpts of the bible to rationalize whatever they believed. Their stance on most issues did not challenge you theoretically, it just seemed ludicrous. This lead to an internal shift from christianity for you and you adopted Atheism since it seemed logical, the absurdities of religion were explained there. It resonated well with what you felt mentally lacking in christianity and thus became your new 'religion'.


I did read his reply. I disagree with some of what he says (since I don't believe that you can be agnostic - you're either a theist or an atheist). But most atheists are undisputedly freethinkers when it comes to religion!

You must live in a perfect world. Because I don't.
Things and situations are never black and white. THEY ARE GREY.
However, the key is that you personally chose not to believe in it because it would challenge what you hold so dear.
I would argue instead most atheists are anti-religion not free-thinkers when it comes to religion. They have adopted a position of God doesn't exist how then can we expect them to freely think about religion and evaluate its intricacies?

The only free-thinker on religion is an agnostic, one who thinks of this situation neutrally not by starting from God exists or God doesn't exist but being aware that any of the two can be possible.

Interesting how you put "fanatic" with anti-god. When did you last see a fanatical atheist? Look at all the wars going on around the world and tell me of any that has an atheist cause. It's the religious nuts who are always killing each other in the name of their religons!

Fanatical atheism doesn't mean that you need to start wars or kill people. It means holding onto a philosophical idea like its life or death. That ATLian you cannot deny is what you do when it comes to atheism. You switch the goal posts and fail to acknowledge that there exists some shortcomings of this atheist religion that you cling so much to.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

A major difference between atheists and Christians is atheists are freethinkers in all aspects of their lives including religion, while Christians are freethinkers in all aspects of their lives apart from religion. It's therefore funny for them to take shots at atheists when they are essentially 99.999% alike!

Atlian, is it possible for someone to weigh out atheism and weigh out Christianity and submit to Christianity without being told that he's fallen into mental slavery?