[infinitepyro]

Originally Posted by grip_daddy

This would require some time, but briefly I would like to point out that the fight between God and Satan started when Satan thought that he had some specialty over other created beings, including angels. If you read the reference made to him in the book of Ezekiel chapter 26, you will find out that Satan was given such a high profile position and was adorned by beautiful jewelry and precious stones. And feeling more important, he thought he too deserved to be revered just as God. Compare the statements in Isiah 14. This was his down fall, and other literature outside the bible, supported by prophetic interpretation of some books in the bible, it is said that Satan felt that God is selfish and wants all the power and reverence only to him. Satan argued that every created being had a freedom of choice and therefore should follow their own laws and principles (you cant worship God by disregarding His Laws). He even said that no created being was following God's laws out of their own accord. Thus explains the great fight in heaven in which a third of the angels were on Satan's side.

Now since some angels agreed to follow Satan, it was difficult for God to clearly demonstrate that following His laws was easy and good. The laws of God in themselves are life, and if disobeyed the result is death. But God did not want to force allegiance, he wanted to demonstrate the possibility that His laws are just, and the only way He was to do that was to create a lesser being, with intelligence and ability to choose.

Um guyz...this is the heresy I was talkin abt. We dont ever get 2 hear Satans syd n if Satan wz indeed so bitter abt god bein worshippd wud he really b as chummy wit god as he ws in the book of Job? Think on it.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by youngben

I like the way God goes about changing/modifying his rules as we go along to fit with human societies needs.

Your argument fails in the sense that eating shrimp doesn't fit as a pressing societal need at that period.

Originally Posted by youngben

Look at it this way, if he has changed a rule he gave due to human weaknesses and/or influence, that means he is weak and cannot sustain a stand. Simple translation means, if all humans inevitably become homosexuals, he will be forced to revise his law/view on homosexualism to accomodate us (argument).

Actually, Jesus "made some laws even stricter" (for lack of better terminology). For instance, in Matthew 5
hating your brother = murder
looking at a woman with lustful eyes = adultery
he replaced "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" with "turn the other cheek"
he changed "thou shalt love thine neighbor and hate thine enemy" to "love your enemies, do good to them that hate you, and pray for those who persecute you"

So its not about God submitting to human weaknesses, unless you're a mormon. God established the Old Covenant law and prophets for the preparation and coming of the Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the law by being the Messiah (Mt 5:17), and established a New Covenant.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by infinitepyro

I see ppl chuckin bible verses as if frm thin air. Av always wanted sm1 2 show me a verse in the bible where we can see Satan lyin n not this heresy tht ati cz god wz jealous of Lucife or sm crazy shi lyk dat he decided 2 mudsling hm. Jst one verse n i'l b the devoutest christian ever.

So are the people in the Bible slandering the devil?

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that ancient serpent called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Originally Posted by infinitepyro

accordin 2 the bible God is merciful an he is capable of anythin. Tht sed, he'd b capable of forgivin this repent satan wudnt he?

Yes he would. No one's beyond forgiveness, not even the devil, so its theoretically possible.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

For doing that, god would have forgiven him for starting the war which resulted in 40 million people dying and 100 million being injured. He would serve ZERO punishment under god, and be rewarded with an eternity in heaven. On the other hand, if I am a good person, but I chose my god given intelligence to question the existence of god, then I die without having had a chance to accept Christ, I'll be doomed to hell forever. That is what I find to be a very twisted sense of right and wrong and forgiveness vs punishment.

Think of hell not as a punishment but as a consequence of rejecting God, because punishments have corrective intentions. If Osama bin Laden absolutely detests Christians, the constant presence of Christ will be hell to him.

John the Baptist said that Jesus would baptize with fire. This is the same fire that would cause torment to those who reject God. The fire that brings out the radiance in gold is the same fire that burns wood.

[bible_reader]

LUCIFER in heaven, before his rebellion, was a high and exalted angel, next in honor to God's dear Son. His countenance, like those of the other angels, was mild and expressive of happiness. His forehead was high and broad, showing a powerful intellect. His form was perfect; his bearing noble and majestic. A special light beamed in his countenance and shone around him brighter and more beautiful than around the other angels; yet Christ, God's dear Son, had the pre-eminence over all the angelic host. He was one with the Father before the angels were created. Lucifer was envious of Christ, and gradually assumed command which devolved on Christ alone.

There was contention among the angels. Lucifer and his sympathizers were striving to reform the government of God. They were discontented and unhappy because they could not look into His unsearchable wisdom and ascertain His purposes in exalting His Son, and endowing Him with such unlimited power and command. They rebelled against the authority of the Son.

[youngben]

Originally Posted by ndigila

Your argument fails in the sense that eating shrimp doesn't fit as a pressing societal need at that period.

So its not about God submitting to human weaknesses, unless you're a mormon. God established the Old Covenant law and prophets for the preparation and coming of the Messiah. Jesus fulfilled the law by being the Messiah (Mt 5:17), and established a New Covenant.

Actually ndigila you missed the meaning, maybe I was unclear.

For example, take students in a school, the students are ecpected in class by 1:30 pm after lunch, this is emphasized by the use of a bell, the headmaster clearly comes out and lays it on thick that the consequences will be dire should anyone not abide.

Now after a few weeks, the bell rings at 1:30 pm, but over 75% of the students still continue playing football, this continues for almost week, with the students going to class at 2pm. by this time the % ignoring the 1:30 pm bell has risen to 85%.

So what that the headmaster do, he adjusts the timings of the lunch break to 2 pm, because of the headache of actually punishing 85% of the student population even though they are wrong.

So here we see theres no need to play for the children, as you have put it, but the sin bracket is too wide going by the practises, causing the laws and rules to be changed.

Unclean meat was already being enjoyed by a large number of people, especially because of their interaction with 'gentiles', so much so, the lawmakers risked alienating themselves from their community if they did not adjust laws, from a social poit of view and attribute the same to God. So the need is not the shrimp, the need is the "sin bracket".

Hence my postulate: Should the sin bracket increase, will "Gods Law" be amended again?? Clear pointers, The Gay Clergy!!

[fiery_preacher]

if the devil repented and denounced his kingdom,you would still expect his second in command or other dignitaries in his kingdom's heirachy to rebel against him.

It will also not bring an end to the evil in the world because man himself has taken a step further in embracing anti-christ ideologies such as one held by atheists and the new age movement.

[youngben]

Originally Posted by fiery_preacher

if the devil repented and denounced his kingdom,you would still expect his second in command or other dignitaries in his kingdom's heirachy to rebel against him.

You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

Are you not blaspheming by entertaining a thought or argument that Lucifer might repent? because as far as I know, the bible (revelations) clearly states what will happen in the end times.

By discussing an alternative scenario to the God - Satan drift/ending, Is that not being sinful and highliting the possibility that the bible may not be true.

Just a thought

[flexxxx]

We should get anan to mediate peace. GOd is way too sturborn to accepd Diablos appology. Diablo likes it being down there. he gets to look up the skirts of all the mamas. nice view i have to say. Probo is there is no God there is no Up there is no down
all is relative to gravity. We all have a life span. yes teh earth will die. We only have like 1 bill years before this place becomes inhabitable. The sun will die in about 5 billion years. by that time we will have to have moved to another planet r get distroyed.

there is the issue of andromedor banging into our solar system. we dont know if it will hit on our side. all we can do is enjoy life and wait for our fate as propbably the most advances species in the galaxy if not the universe.

Story za devil na god muache wana. we have a lot more things to solve.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by youngben

For example, take students in a school, the students are ecpected in class by 1:30 pm after lunch, this is emphasized by the use of a bell, the headmaster clearly comes out and lays it on thick that the consequences will be dire should anyone not abide.

Now after a few weeks, the bell rings at 1:30 pm, but over 75% of the students still continue playing football, this continues for almost week, with the students going to class at 2pm. by this time the % ignoring the 1:30 pm bell has risen to 85%.

So what that the headmaster do, he adjusts the timings of the lunch break to 2 pm, because of the headache of actually punishing 85% of the student population even though they are wrong.

So here we see theres no need to play for the children, as you have put it, but the sin bracket is too wide going by the practises, causing the laws and rules to be changed.

Youngben, your analogy still fails to take into account the fact that the Old Covenant was a temporary one that was fulfilled with the coming of the Messiah. Let's say the headmaster uses a bell which he has to ring using his hand, and he was to do this until the school is able to afford a much louder electric bell. The students keep showing up late either because they didn't hear the bell or they were blatantly disobeying it. When the new electric bell is installed, those who show up late have no excuse.