[ernestombayo7]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Because:

- they don't believe that god exists

- the notion of forgiveness for any sin you do, no matter how big, by simply asking for forgiveness is just not rational or realistic. It's very hard to convince a father that the man who just raped and killed his 2 year old daughter will go to heaven if he only tells god "I'm sorry".

Saying am sorry and actually meaning it are two different things.For God to forgive you,you have to be honest and genuinely remorseful and willing to change.
Otherwise the rapist still has to pay for his sin through our Justice system.He can repent while in prison.

- they don't believe that what they are doing is a sin that needs repentance. I ate shrimp for dinner last week, and that is a sin according to god which would send me to hell to burn forever. I (and most Christians who eat shrimp) just don't believe that I need to apologize to god for eating shrimp, and ask for his almighty forgiveness.

- etc etc etc

which god told you not to eat shrimp?

[ernestombayo7]

Originally Posted by Papa_Shirandula

We know that Lucifer is the cause of all our misery and trouble. I was just wondering what if today he decides enaf is enaf I quit and goes down on his knees and asks for forgiveness from the Almighty JAH. Considering the fact that our GOD is so loving and forgiving. Don't you think this plot will end so well. Ama am just too high on this sh**t

Its an impossibilty.Sadly Satan was judged along-time ago when he chose to rebel.He has already received his sentence,he's serving his time now.Which is sadly eternity.

And anyway,Someone repents when he receives some form of conviction of good. Where does satan get this conviction if he loathes anything good.

[bible_reader]

I believe Lucifer has already been judged,he is waiting punishment,so repentence is out of question.

[youngben]

Originally Posted by lavidanor

So, all manner of foods have been sanctified by the Blood of Christ, can now be received with thanksgiving. You don't therefore need to repent for eating shrimps.

I like the way God goes about changing/modifying his rules as we go along to fit with human societies needs.

Look at it this way, if he has changed a rule he gave due to human weaknesses and/or influence, that means he is weak and cannot sustain a stand. Simple translation means, if all humans inevitably become homosexuals, he will be forced to revise his law/view on homosexualism to accomodate us (argument).

Any law that can be changed by man under the pretext of Gods inspiration or Gods voice is not God's (you knowthey did not know schizophrenia then )

[HUH?]

Originally Posted by youngben

I like the way God goes about changing/modifying his rules as we go along to fit with human societies needs.

Look at it this way, if he has changed a rule he gave due to human weaknesses and/or influence, that means he is weak and cannot sustain a stand. Simple translation means, if all humans inevitably become homosexuals, he will be forced to revise his law/view on homosexualism to accomodate us (argument).

Any law that can be changed by man under the pretext of Gods inspiration or Gods voice is not God's (you knowthey did not know schizophrenia then )

thank you youngben. I was attempting to expouse on the same argument but you put it more eloquently than I would have.

on the matter of Lucifer repenting (assuming that he even exists), i'd have to say that if it would happen most religions of the world would be non-existent. simply because the duality of evil and good in the world would cease to exist. without evil (not the devil) we wouldn't be able to appreciate/recognize the good, and sacred IMO. like a philosophy professor once said, "if you lived on a purple planet you wouldn't know what blue is"

just my .20 bob

[ATLian]

thank you youngben. I was attempting to expouse on the same argument but you put it more eloquently than I would have.

Ditto. I've tried to put that point across thao times bila any success. Cheers youngben.

Bottom line is god cannot and does not change. It's man who changes. If homosexuality is evil in god's eyes, that means that it has always been, it is, and it will always be evil. Period! If every person alive became gay, we would all go to hell. God wouldn't change his laws to accept gays only coz everyone is gay!

But as man progresses, he changes and starts understanding and accepting homosexuals. Then he goes and changes god so that god doesn't come across as archaic and out of touch with modern times.

[ATLian]

Saying am sorry and actually meaning it are two different things.For God to forgive you,you have to be honest and genuinely remorseful and willing to change.

Ernest,

I understand that. I understand that you'll be forgiven and end up in heaven only if you're genuinely sorry (and of course if you also believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of god blah blah blah...). My point is - somebody like Hitler could one day have woken up and realized how facked up he was. He could then have been genuinely sorry and remorseful for all he had done. He could then have accepted Christ as his personal saviour and asked god for forgiveness. For doing that, god would have forgiven him for starting the war which resulted in 40 million people dying and 100 million being injured. He would serve ZERO punishment under god, and be rewarded with an eternity in heaven. On the other hand, if I am a good person, but I chose my god given intelligence to question the existence of god, then I die without having had a chance to accept Christ, I'll be doomed to hell forever. That is what I find to be a very twisted sense of right and wrong and forgiveness vs punishment.



which god told you not to eat shrimp?

Ernest,

your god said that. Check out Leviticus Chapter 11, where he goes into extraordinary lengths detailing to Abraham which foods are clean and eatable, and which foods are unclean and an abomination:

Leviticus 11: And the LORD spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth ... And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Kwani you're one of those jamaas who goes to "All You Can Eat Crab-Legs Thursday" at your local Chineese deli, and the Shrimp Buffet at the local AppleBees, ama what? If you are, pole, lakini you have committed some grave abominations. Next time order tilapia - since it has fins and scales, god is OK with that.

[infinitepyro]

I see ppl chuckin bible verses as if frm thin air. Av always wanted sm1 2 show me a verse in the bible where we can see Satan lyin n not this heresy tht ati cz god wz jealous of Lucife or sm crazy shi lyk dat he decided 2 mudsling hm. Jst one verse n i'l b the devoutest christian ever.

Disregardin all tht all ya'l hav semad n all thts written abt sijui Lord Satan servin his sentence, accordin 2 christianity...no eff christianity, accordin 2 the bible God is merciful an he is capable of anythin. Tht sed, he'd b capable of forgivin this repent satan wudnt he? Ama he's not perfect, cz thts the impression am unda.

One mo thing, (am glad sm1z already raised this point smhow), if evrithin has its equal opposite n god represents good n satan represents evil...doesnt tht make Lord Satan as mighty as god...? jst a thot

[infinitepyro]

Originally Posted by lavidanor

ATLian, about eating shrimps, you may consider the perfection of things in the New Testament: Look at the following:
Mark 7:17-19;
Acts 10:9-16;
1 Timothy 4:1-5.

So, all manner of foods have been sanctified by the Blood of Christ, can now be received with thanksgiving. You don't therefore need to repent for eating shrimps.

This is tht Timothy verse of yoz.

1The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Am thinkin tht its a contradiction 2 wat god sed in leviticus abt not eatin stuf frm the waters without fins n scales ati cz its unclean ama he wasnt the 1 whu created the shrimp 4 zamani? Or he jst changed his mind? Nah, nt likely. He's too perfect to do tht n in any case Christianity semaz he doesnt change his mind unlike us undecisive humanz. We can actually do smthn god cant do! Ha ha!

[grip_daddy]

This post is meant to address godliness vs evil.

God considers evil thoughts just as equal in magnitude to the act itself. This was explained by God to Samuel when he went to anoint David as the king of Israel. When Jesus delivered His summon on the mount, He clarified this point that it is not just killing your brother that is considered murder, but entertaining such thoughts have equal magnitude in God's scale of judgment. Physical manifestation of such does not increase the magnitude of the evil, but only plays a part in providing evidence to the physical world that indeed such evil exist in the human mind. I might have therefore lived a righteous life, very moral, but the magnitude of sin I cherish in mind is bigger than that shown to the physical world by Hitler.

The story posted elsewhere about a young girl Jessica cannot be over magnified as suggested in the post. God does not judge according to the human reasoning of good and evil, but He puts in play the entire realm of the beings and creatures interested in that single act. He looks at things without the time dimensions under which the physical world exists, but according the genesis and conclusion of the acts of evil. In the book Isiah 27 vs 10, it is written that if an evil man is allowed to go to heaven, he will not change from his evil ways.

The rationality of God's way of judgment will be understood only when we understand the reason as to why the all powerful God allowed evil to continue, for it is known that Satan was already an evil entity in the creation even before man was created. Thus, man was created in an already imperfect universe due to presence of evil, as opposed to a possibility of such evil. In this case, we would really want to wonder why God created man!

In the study of the bible, it is easy to understand that the creation of man was to aid in the fight of God's logics in the essence that He deserved reverence and obedience, that He alone needed to be worshiped. And why would God want to explain that?

This would require some time, but briefly I would like to point out that the fight between God and Satan started when Satan thought that he had some specialty over other created beings, including angels. If you read the reference made to him in the book of Ezekiel chapter 26, you will find out that Satan was given such a high profile position and was adorned by beautiful jewelry and precious stones. And feeling more important, he thought he too deserved to be revered just as God. Compare the statements in Isiah 14. This was his down fall, and other literature outside the bible, supported by prophetic interpretation of some books in the bible, it is said that Satan felt that God is selfish and wants all the power and reverence only to him. Satan argued that every created being had a freedom of choice and therefore should follow their own laws and principles (you cant worship God by disregarding His Laws). He even said that no created being was following God's laws out of their own accord. Thus explains the great fight in heaven in which a third of the angels were on Satan's side.

Now since some angels agreed to follow Satan, it was difficult for God to clearly demonstrate that following His laws was easy and good. The laws of God in themselves are life, and if disobeyed the result is death. But God did not want to force allegiance, he wanted to demonstrate the possibility that His laws are just, and the only way He was to do that was to create a lesser being, with intelligence and ability to choose.

This being was thus created, and was given a simple law to keep, so simple that if he kept it, God could have demonstrated that His laws when kept bears fruits to life, and so simple that should not be broken.

This being was man, and it was God's discretion to create him and the earth as a demonstration field. If man failed to keep His law, then he was automatically going to be specimen for demonstrating both the manifestation of good and evil. But the man was still to choose.

By Adam and Eve eating the fruit they were told not to eat, automatically they became evil. The only solution they had now was to believe that God could restore them to the former good, and whoever refused, becomes forever dead!

My fingers are tired pressing the phone's pads, but I'm not yet through! More to come on this...