Is Africa the Problem? or the Problem Africans?

[Msoto]

Originally Posted by Atabong

all these countries you quoted have shown formidable leadership. Humanistic leaders, i.e. Putting the interests of their people first. Working for common not self-interests. Government is like a pyramid; the signals that keep the base together come from the top and vice versa. African leaders are not independent and we point at neo-colonialism as first culprit. culture as you mentioned above really does not stand-up.humanistic leaders can correct this without many troubles, i.e. Preaching oneness and implementing policies that gives every one (not specific group) equal opportunies. African leaders provide government posts and other opportunities to those they think will vote for them during elections and not to the most qualified so we wind-up having all the ministerial posts and other crucial sectors of the economy occupied by the wrong people who are always answerable to mr. President. Sub saharan african leaders are the epitome of egocentricity with the sole goal being to pile up personal wealth and stay in power for as long as it takes and no regards for their own people whatsoever. The pedigree of african leaders in power today (and those still fighting for power) can always be traced back to colonial times and gains. african leaders are not independent and are egocentric. You can't say kenya is independent and keep using the shilling, that's an irony. Other countries cannot be singing independence and keep using the franc, pound, dollar etc. These are all palpable and irrefutable proves of imperialism. Africa got talent, we are not mentally iferior or whatever, we lack is leadership, i.e. Leaders who can implement the rule of law and order and open up equal opportunities for all not only for those who will vote for them.

Some people have proposed the following solutions, as remedy to what they say is a crisis situation in sub saharan africa (ssa).
1.ask the respective european governments to return and put in place proper governments and then leave. 2.ask the au to create an election body that will organize, run, annul or adopt results to all elections in sub saharan africa. 3.ask native black americans to invest both talent and money in ssa 5.create a secret military or ask the us to step in and remove all those leaders who don’t want to leave. 6.ask all ssa leaders to swear a special oath that they will leave when their term is over. 7. Ask all black people at home and in the diaspora to make a day when we all stand up for prayers. 8.ask all black people at home and the diaspora to go on strike 8. Ask all ssa peoples in the diaspora to return home and implement the good things they have learnt outside.

All the people must want change for the situation in sub saharan africa.
At the moment only the lower class want change, the middle and upper class want normalcy, the perceive change as 'redistribution and chaos'. They are self-interested and the need for change hasn't really changed their lives. No one has been able to convince them that they should advocate for change over their daily lives. The risk doesn't warrant them to take any action. So in the end, the quagmire we find ourselves continues.

[froggy]

Originally Posted by Atabong

Yes, we are thinking along the same lines, but any practical ideas on how to implement this?

1. Personnel.

Ata my friend, have you ever been before a Kenyan magistrate? You have not seen thickness if you haven't ever been summoned. These guys are dense! Gosh. The bar (pun intended) must be pretty low to get a law degree from Poona where most studied...

If these chaps got decent pay, some of the brighter minds from Kenyan / Canadian / Brit or Aussie unis could be attracted to the magistracy.

2. Mode of recruitment

I still believe the judiciary is the most corrupt arm of the Kenyan govt. Judges are political appointees. Merit is not really a primary consideration. If credentials paid a bigger role and kickbacks / nepotism etc played no role at all, then maybe, just maybe...

3. Archaic laws

I visit my "learned" friends and see them dusting 1958 texts. Heck, If I did a diagnosis based on a 1958 text, I'd recommend treating syphillis with a rabbit foot. Lawyers just dont move with the time. Their laws were fine in 1958 - they are not fine today!!!

The 10th parliament should not stop on updating the Promissory Oaths Act alone, they should update the whole set of inane victorian laws that are still religiously applied in the Kenya colony

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by Atabong

Some people have proposed the following solutions, as remedy to what they say is a crisis situation in sub saharan africa (ssa).
1.ask the respective european governments to return and put in place proper governments and then leave.

This should have happened when the African countries gained independence and not now. But still a good solution.

Originally Posted by Atabong

2.ask the au to create an election body that will organize, run, annul or adopt results to all elections in sub saharan africa.

Good solution.

Originally Posted by Atabong

3.ask native black americans to invest both talent and money in ssa

Maybe, but
1. There'll probably be biased in the countries they choose to invest in (like Oprah's school in south Africa)
2. Those with the capability are mostly in sports and music: Athletes usually give back to the community by building better sports facilities and I don't see musicians investing in Africa (ofcourse I could be wrong).
3. They also need to deal with the issues their people in the US are facing.

Originally Posted by Atabong

5.create a secret military or ask the us to step in and remove all those leaders who don’t want to leave.

Secret military headed by whom? Does the US really care?

Originally Posted by Atabong

6.ask all ssa leaders to swear a special oath that they will leave when their term is over.

Unless its an oath which warrants a death penalty if broken, its not going to work. These guys break oaths and promises all the time.

Originally Posted by Atabong

7. Ask all black people at home and in the diaspora to make a day when we all stand up for prayers.

Not all black people believe in the same God.

Originally Posted by Atabong

8.ask all black people at home and the diaspora to go on strike

Are those in the diaspora really willing to risk their livelihood for what's going on at home? You said that Africans are running to the west to engage in slave labour, they don't even have to be carried anymore.

Originally Posted by Atabong

8. Ask all ssa peoples in the diaspora to return home and implement the good things they have learnt outside.

Possibly, but I don't think education is the solution. Take a quick look at the Politics forums. Tribalism is rampant.

#2's the best solution, out of the choices.

[Telvin]

This is what I would do if I were president or in a similar position to influence policy: I would start by appointing a thoroughly qualified committee to chart new Kenyan frontier. I would take however long it takes to identify and contact honorable corruption-free lawyers, doctors, economists, engineers, educators, businessmen, politicians etc to serve on a committee to recommend solutions for key Kenyan issues. You may not believe me but there are good Kenyans left and we can find them even if they are abroad. I know funding for this research would be high but we got to start somewhere. The committee would use their expertise in their fields or if they lack ideas, they could tour different countries to study systems from which we can tailor ours. Think about it -you don't have to re-invent the wheel.
Unfortunately, this may never happen because I cannot be a politician. I admit I am too weak to bear the task. Good example is right now because I would never want to be Raila or Kibaki because I can never bear the blood of another human being. I am sure there is at least one single Kenyan who has died because of the two and one is too many. However, I will do my part in my field. I at least know I will not be corrupted or prejudiced.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by Msoto

All the people must want change for the situation in sub saharan africa.
At the moment only the lower class want change, the middle and upper class want normalcy, the perceive change as 'redistribution and chaos'. They are self-interested and the need for change hasn't really changed their lives. No one has been able to convince them that they should advocate for change over their daily lives. The risk doesn't warrant them to take any action. So in the end, the quagmire we find ourselves continues.

Yes, what you say is very understandable.But many people have also argued that the missing link in Sub Saharan Africa is the middle class.That there is only Upper and lower class.That ignorance is so widespread that the only hope the lower class can believe in is 'in heaven'. i.e after they die. That if there is a middle class, the poor will see what their lives can become if they work harder.That the poor look, and the ripe fruits at the tree top are so far off that they find no reason to go near the trunk.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by Telvin

...I would take however long it takes to identify and contact honorable corruption-free lawyers, doctors, economists, engineers, educators, businessmen, politicians etc to serve on a committee to recommend solutions for key Kenyan issues...

But the statement in Blue means you may have to amend the constitution to make provisions for ‘however long it takes’

[t.D.A.]

Just for the sake of contrast I will talk about some of the great things I have observed and think that we as a continent have done:
1) Until recently, 50+ tribes in Kenya actually co-existed peacefully. Even in this violent time, almost all of the tribes still get along with all the attacks being directed at one tribe. If you study European and American history, you read a history of cold blooded colonization of Europeans by Europeans (Romans with the British, British with the Irish and US etc, Eastern Europe by Western Europe etc etc. In America, any time a new group of people landed in the country, they were met with huge backlash, the Irish when the first showed up had to fight for their piece of the pie and do we really need to talk about slavery and how they had oppressive laws such as child labor laws, 16 hour days etc etc).
2) In spite of our poverty, the major disease of our time has not wiped us out and doesn't seem like it will even though it still ravages through our continent. Think the Black plague vs AIDS.
3) The work ethic and productivity of our people once we are put out in the West to compete...need I say more.

I could go on and on, but my general point is that, as bad as our continent maybe, we are miles ahead of Europe in terms of where they were at the same time (e.g. England after it stopped being a Roman colony). Europeans were still slaughtering each other all the way until WW2.

What do you think the chances are that Africa will erupt into a continent wide war? I must apologize for not having references to back up my claims, if any one has any references that back up or dispute my claims please feel free.

One of my missions in life is to get rid of that ,"What's wrong with us Africans?" line of questioning. Personally I think it's futile and won't move us in a positive direction. I prefer questions like: " How can we best use our current situation?" "How can we turn what seem like problems into opportunities and use them to drive our continent forward?"

I hope this serves to shake up your thinking a little bit.

[froggy]

Originally Posted by t.D.A.

How can we turn what seem like problems into opportunities and use them to drive our continent forward?"

I hope this serves to shake up your thinking a little bit.

Am lost. What seem to be problems to me are

1. endemic corruption, poor governance, weak government and ignorant populations 2. Natural disasters 3. lack of arable land and no food security 4. exploding populations

so how can we turn these to be opportunities? how can for instance the ebola and HIV viri offer opportunity. Should we embrace them as nature's equivalent of femiplan?

[t.D.A.]

Originally Posted by froggy

Am lost. What seem to be problems to me are

1. endemic corruption, poor governance, weak government and ignorant populations 2. Natural disasters 3. lack of arable land and no food security 4. exploding populations

so how can we turn these to be opportunities? how can for instance the ebola and HIV viri offer opportunity. Should we embrace them as nature's equivalent of femiplan?

How can we turn HIV and ebola into an opportunity?

There are Africans all over the world who are extremely well educated and extremely well read. We can look at the AIDS epidemic as our chance to review how we conduct healthcare in our nation. We can stop and say to ourselves:

"With AIDS exploding as it is in our nation, as well as other diseases, clearly the way we disemminate our healthcare is not working, which countries and examples can we look to of nations in similar circumstances that have phenomenal health care systems?"

My understanding is that Cuba, as poor as it is, has an aids rate that is one of the lowest in the world (some say 0.03%, others 0.7%). How can we model their healthcare system?

The Tswanas in spite of the fact that they have a huge AIDS epidemic apparently have exceptional health care with systems in place to train their doctors in the West and then for them to return home and serve with the AIDS situation. What can we learn from them and apply from them?

If you want to interject and say that we don't have the resources to do so, I strongly suggest that you have a look at the how much is sent to Africa in remittances every single year and do a brief mental exercise and calculate how much the typical person earns in the diaspora and how many shillings that translates into annually?

In short the opportunity is to stop, look at the situations as they are, look to nations that once were where we were (like European ones) and find out what we can copy?

I hope the article hasn't been to vague and abstract and has been clear enough to understand.

Remember, Rosa Parks being sent to the back of the bus could have been just another day in the life of segregation but instead it turned out to be the beginning of the civil rights movement.
The death of the next AIDS victim could be just another death or the beginning of the movement to bring universal,accesible and optimal health to all the people of Africa.

Are we on the same page

[napoleon]

Originally Posted by Atabong

We read and watch Western and foreign media, googgle out 'Sub Saharan Africa' on the Internet and we’re dumfounded with what we see. In the West, the only thing most people know of Africa is on their outright racist news channels, big billboards showing fleshless black men and women overpowered by disease, houseflies hovering over starving children. Even black people living in the West are demoralized. No body knows what to do, isn’t it time for us as Africans to portray the good we have?

Yes it is definately time we potrayed ourselves in a positive way. We cannot wholly blame the western media for potrying us in an inhumane way. Reason being we as africans have to begin helping ourselves before anyone can help us. We cannot deny the fact that we do indeed have poverty,disease and wars in certain parts of africa. The only way we can do help to ourselves is by trying to at least potray more of the "positive than the negative" and work to improve on where we have gone wrong.