[milanya]

Also, westerners allowed for a few africans to leave the country and get educated, while the rest remained uneducated. The educated people got into power and had absolute authority about running a govt, parliament constitution. The common mwananchi didn't know any better than this man is my fellow countryman. That's how we ended up with only a parliament without a body to check and balance it, a president with all the power and a near-ceremonial VP. People were milking cows while the educated few screwed them over.

[froggy]

^^but sometimes I think we will it on ourselves. I have been ignored in a restaurant in my own bloody country. Turns out the place was asian and they did not have every single item i asked for from the menu (rather strange for an a la carte joint)

But what did I do - nothing. Tell you what i should have done. Torch the damned place that's what. But since am a sissy, they can continue treating blacks like trash in their own frigging country.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by mkenya24

there are two countries in the carribean, one is haiti and the other the dominican republic. These two are on the same island and share a common border with each other. Haiti is mostly black and dominican republic has a larger multiracial society than black haiti. Dominican republic is prosperous and regarded as a middle income state. Haiti is the poorest state in the northern hemisphere (worse than many sub-saharan states including kenya). Closer home, why are countries with a large white population (s.a, namibia and zimbabwe before mugabes action) more developed than those with lesser or no white populations? even mauritius, the best country economically in africa is not demographically black, most mauritius citizens are asian descendants. Makes me wonder.

These questions can be answered from one principal angle. The rule of law: any human community hoping to live in harmony creates laws that resonate everybody’s interests. This is absent in sub saharan africa and other poor nations. In sub saharan africa and other poor countries the rule of law is based on the interests of the rich and powerful and not on common interests, this is why in sub saharan africa justice is a privilege too expensive for the poor. Corruption is rampant because this is to the advantage of the rich and powerful. Corrupt law courts controlled and manipulated by the rich and powerful, unchecked crimes, criminals roam the streets and become everybody’s nightmare but the rich and powerful.

Without the rule of law, human resources are wasted, basic human rights and freedoms like thought and expression are nothing short of a singsong. Without freedoms of thought and expression there is no creativity and advancement. In sub saharan africa and other poor nations, the leaders and their gangs tend to be tyrants who use every means at their disposal to suppress these two crucial human rights and freedoms. They are only interested in staying in power for as long as it takes.

The absence of the rule of law that reflects everybody’s interests creates a very repulsive environment for business and foreign investment. Without business and foreign investment there is no innovation and progress. No foreign earnings mean there is no money to kick-start a trickle down effect, so the commoner who is usually the majority cannot afford basic education, and so plays no part in decision-making that determines his/her future.

The presence of the rule of law, which benefits only the ‘western elect’, embezzle without worries and save this badly needed cash in safe accounts in the west. When the badly needed cash is not there, the poor get poorer, the rich get richer and the vicious cycle gets worse so we become demoralized and starts blaming our skin color or an old horned demon hanging in the sky.

Corruption is caused and empowered by the absence of the rule of law and order. So it’s not enough to say that corruption is killing people in africa, corruption is causing wars and diseases, let’s fight corruption head-on and so on. This is a digression from the truth.

Allow the people to elect their own leaders who are ready to step down when their term is over, make independent and strengthen the institutions of law and order and make allowance for freedoms of thought and expression and africa will change overnight; the africa we know today has become a tourists heaven. The quest for drugs blueprints has become nothing but moaning cries disappearing in the sub saharan forests, corruption, ignorance, disease, pain and pestilence has died a natural death, no more billboards in the west showing orphans who need help, the black man has stopped seeing himself as inferior, nor as hutu or tutsi, kikuyu or luo, ashanti or dagomba, muslim or christian etc but as equals to any other in the same human family.

The rule of law and order is the key. Any ideas on how we should implement this?

[froggy]

^^ 1. Overhaul the judiciary.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by froggy

^^ 1. Overhaul the judiciary.

Yes, we are thinking along the same lines, but any practical ideas on how to implement this?

[Atabong]

mwolovi;568419 ...It will take one complete century to turn africa around...

We're curious to know why you think it will take an entire century to turn Africa around.

[Telvin]

The white man may be to blame but not entirely. You all act like we are the only peoples who have ever been colonized. Look at Jews who lived under Egyptians for several thousand years and were almost disseminated just this century, yet the are doing ok. in their desert Israeli homes and other areas of the world. What about India and other Asian countries that were colonized? India, for example, may not be a first world country (mainly due to its unique problems) but no one would dare say Indians are stupid! How the hell did India and Pakistan figure out how to build nukes? How do they figure out to compete in technology? Tell me what they have that we don't.
Has it ever occurred to you that most Africans just don't care or they are just not motivated enough to invest in their future? I think this is the reason why we lag behind. We lack a certain hunger to be innovative or creative that you can read of in early America, China, Japan, Rome, Egypt etc. I don't buy neocolonialism stuff, while it's real, because it doesn't stand up in reality. Do you think the whites would try to sabotage you if you set out a goal say as an MP to organize a system to introduce tap water to all households in a community? I have never a good answer why people still fetch drinking water (even around Nairobi) 44 years after independence. Even one bore hole a year would have done it! I think we have to stop this mentality that white people are meeting secretly to plan for African failure. To me a country is just like an individual in many ways: there are people who feel they will always be poor because they were poor but on the other hand, there are those who are poor but they work their way through school as a single parent studying late at night, applying for education loans and scholarship here and there to become successful individuals. I believe Kenyans and Africans lack that fire in the belly to pursues greater things.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by Telvin

The white man may be to blame but not entirely... We lack a certain hunger to be innovative or creative that you can read of in early America, China, Japan, Rome, Egypt etc. I don't buy neocolonialism stuff, while it's real, because it doesn't stand up in reality...

Why this lacK? Genetic for example?

[Telvin]

I don't think our problem is genetic at all because we do have examples of great black people around the world and in Africa and also because there is no scientific evidence for this. What I do attribute our problems to is culture. Even different Kenyan tribes have different values for eg. education, even female education, roles in society, land etc. Didn't you just hear of female political candidates who were battered in their own campaigns just because 'a woman cannot lead a man'? This is a learned attitude and there is nothing genetic about it. This phenomenon is merely cultural and it can be changed, even within a generation. That above was just a single example but I believe you can have enough individuals with these negative attitudes to retard a people. Think about odd attitudes eg. about rule of law (example:-most Kenyan politicians don't think they are subject to any laws), attitudes about money, government systems, life and death, family etc. eg. in terms of government systems Africans are mostly communal but it clearly doesn't work these days because community leaders take advantage of people and steal wealth instead of sharing. We, unlike people of European origin love large families historically for wealth and labor source but this hurts you in 21st century unless you are independently wealthy. I will point out that all African attitudes are not unhealthy but you can have enough of them to pull you down. Example of a good attitude we have is in marriage- at least most people don't think divorce is a cute word like most westerners (this is changing though).
Someone once said that a black man in America may have to jump higher and run faster to compete with whites and it may be the same for Africans. We are obviously young nations (almost all less than 50 yrs of independence) and still recovering from effects of subjugation and new threats of neocolonialism as well as negative attitudes from rest of the world. This means we may need to work harder than some other countries that may not share our burdens. My earlier post pointed though that it has been done before specifically by Asian countries and therefore I can't understand why we can't. I am not ready to submit that we (Africans) are a useless people because we were once colonized [Kenya 1890-1963]. If we continue to have failed governments and die from curable diseases as we breed poverty just because we were a former colony, then I will agree Africans are stupid or mentally inferior! I say this because we need to move from attitudes that don't offer solutions. We need to stop blaming colonization because it cannot be undone, at least until we get a time machine!

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by telvin

this means we may need to work harder than some other countries that may not share our burdens

all these countries you quoted have shown formidable leadership. Humanistic leaders, i.e. Putting the interests of their people first. Working for common not self-interests. Government is like a pyramid; the signals that keep the base together come from the top and vice versa. African leaders are not independent and we point at neo-colonialism as first culprit.

even different kenyan tribes have different values for eg. Education, even female education, roles in society, land etc. Didn't you just hear of female political candidates who were battered in their own campaigns just because 'a woman cannot lead a man'? this is a learned attitude and there is nothing genetic about it.

culture as you mentioned above really does not stand-up.humanistic leaders can correct this without many troubles, i.e. Preaching oneness and implementing policies that gives every one (not specific group) equal opportunies. African leaders provide government posts and other opportunities to those they think will vote for them during elections and not to the most qualified so we wind-up having all the ministerial posts and other crucial sectors of the economy occupied by the wrong people who are always answerable to mr. President. Sub saharan african leaders are the epitome of egocentricity with the sole goal being to pile up personal wealth and stay in power for as long as it takes and no regards for their own people whatsoever. The pedigree of african leaders in power today (and those still fighting for power) can always be traced back to colonial times and gains.

if we continue to have failed governments and die from curable diseases as we breed poverty just because we were a former colony, then i will agree africans are stupid or mentally inferior! i say this because we need to move from attitudes that don't offer solutions.

african leaders are not independent and are egocentric. You can't say kenya is independent and keep using the shilling, that's an irony. Other countries cannot be singing independence and keep using the franc, pound, dollar etc. These are all palpable and irrefutable proves of imperialism. Africa got talent, we are not mentally iferior or whatever, we lack is leadership, i.e. Leaders who can implement the rule of law and order and open up equal opportunities for all not only for those who will vote for them.

Some people have proposed the following solutions, as remedy to what they say is a crisis situation in sub saharan africa (ssa).
1.ask the respective european governments to return and put in place proper governments and then leave. 2.ask the au to create an election body that will organize, run, annul or adopt results to all elections in sub saharan africa. 3.ask native black americans to invest both talent and money in ssa 5.create a secret military or ask the us to step in and remove all those leaders who don’t want to leave. 6.ask all ssa leaders to swear a special oath that they will leave when their term is over. 7. Ask all black people at home and in the diaspora to make a day when we all stand up for prayers. 8.ask all black people at home and the diaspora to go on strike 8. Ask all ssa peoples in the diaspora to return home and implement the good things they have learnt outside.