Is Africa the Problem? or the Problem Africans?

[HUH?]

Originally Posted by Valhalla

IF your piece of land in Africa had oil or diamonds, you would not be able to do anything about it. Unless you are some way implying that the African with oil or diamonds in his 1 acre plot can mine himself into financial glory. Impossible! Someone will buy the dude out and it will not be at a "reasonable" price when compared with potential profits.
So, the idea of calling such an African stupid misses lots of important factors. You agree?

my thoughts exactly. Type R you are mostly correct, but on this last comment..... wewe wacha bana!

valhalla is right. this same thing is happening with coastal residents who are being ripped off because they do not understand the value of Titanium (which has been established abundant in that general area by geologists). it's the same situation with Tanzanite....


Africa IS definitely NOT the problem. if it was a problem, the Romans, Arabs, Christians, and the west would have had nothing to exploit (well, maybe human capital--slaves). we hold ~44% of the Earth's natural resources....keep in mind that ~70% of the Earth is covered by water. my hypothesis is that Africans are not inherently capitalistic. our belief and value systems are VERY different from much of the world's cultures. give it time and capitalism will be fully embraced and intergrated within these systems. can someone say "African Capitalism"?

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by Valhalla

IF your piece of land in Africa had oil or diamonds, you would not be able to do anything about it. Unless you are some way implying that the African with oil or diamonds in his 1 acre plot can mine himself into financial glory. Impossible! Someone will buy the dude out and it will not be at a "reasonable" price when compared with potential profits.
So, the idea of calling such an African stupid misses lots of important factors. You agree?

In the ‘developed’ world, people own property, they carry with them property deeds that certify that they have the legal right to the property in question (Be it real or virtual), they also own copyright and intellectual property rights. These are virtually inexistent in most Sub Sahara African States because of huge government inadequacies; and where they do exist is own by the Western elect, selected and corrupt government protégés. This is why I’m skeptical about HUH?’s idea of sudden African capitalism.

Except you mean that a Westerner who has discovered diamonds in his backyard will simply scoop it out, polish and carry in a bucket to the nearby market place ‘and mine himself into financial glory’

[Valhalla]

Originally Posted by Atabong

In the ‘developed’ world, people own property, they carry with them property deeds that certify that they have the legal right to the property in question (Be it real or virtual), they also own copyright and intellectual property rights. These are virtually inexistent in most Sub Sahara African States because of huge government inadequacies; and where they do exist is own by the Western elect, selected and corrupt government protégés. This is why I’m skeptical about HUH?’s idea of sudden African capitalism.

Except you mean that a Westerner who has discovered diamonds in his backyard will simply scoop it out, polish and carry in a bucket to the nearby market place ‘and mine himself into financial glory’

Atabong, I agree. We actually agree with each other. The dude with mineral on his piece of land in Africa is in a worse off position when compared to his counterpart in the 'developed' countries. Ukweli.

I am also a little unsure about the possibility of Africa's sudden capitalism. Economics and politics seem to go hand in hand. It can actually be argued that the political environment of a society has to be first streamlined (or actively and progressively showing improvement) in order for a healthy economy matters to sprout and take root. Looking around, it's easy to conclude that a decent (if not 'good') political machine is necessary for good economy. It precedes it. Indeed inadequacies!

[t.D.A.]

Originally Posted by Atabong

In the ‘developed’ world, people own property, they carry with them property deeds that certify that they have the legal right to the property in question (Be it real or virtual), they also own copyright and intellectual property rights. These are virtually inexistent in most Sub Sahara African States because of huge government inadequacies; and where they do exist is own by the Western elect, selected and corrupt government protégés. This is why I’m skeptical about HUH?’s idea of sudden African capitalism.

Except you mean that a Westerner who has discovered diamonds in his backyard will simply scoop it out, polish and carry in a bucket to the nearby market place ‘and mine himself into financial glory’

A thought that occurred to me as I read your post was the idea of copyright and intellectual protection. I forget where I sourced this information from, but I remember learning how the West could never have developed -and China now-if they had implemented copyright and intellectual protections from the get go. Information needs to be widely and freely disseminated for the citizens of a nation to exploit so that the nation's economy can collectively grow.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by t.D.A.

A thought that occurred to me as I read your post was the idea of copyright and intellectual protection. I forget where I sourced this information from, but I remember learning how the West could never have developed -and China now-if they had implemented copyright and intellectual protections from the get go. Information needs to be widely and freely disseminated for the citizens of a nation to exploit so that the nation's economy can collectively grow.

Until about 1843 it was illegal to export textile machinery from Britain. Almost two centuries later, we still cannot refine our own oil, construct our own dams and roads or polish our own diamonds; it appears we just cannot create wealth or add value to our natural resources.

Big business guys have even found a way round to make seeds sterile; so I cannot plant the seeds of imported apples etc I buy on the streets in Nairobi, Kinshasa, N’djamena or Accra. Yet the same people are very quick to shout food aid! Food aid! These folks are dying! they need food aid!

Western people may not want to hear this said in public, but it is fact that their nations and others developed by industrial Espionage and copying grounded on solid government foundations.

[HUH?]

Originally Posted by Atabong

Western people may not want to hear this said in public, but it is fact that their nations and others developed by industrial Espionage and copying grounded on solid government foundations.

"SOLID GOVERNMENT FOUNDATIONS" now's that's a dysphemism with Africa right there

[Type R]

Originally Posted by Atabong

Until about 1843 it was illegal to export textile machinery from Britain. Almost two centuries later, we still cannot refine our own oil, construct our own dams and roads or polish our own diamonds; it appears we just cannot create wealth or add value to our natural resources.

This is one thing I have never understood. We have no shortage of the best intellect - Kenyans in MIT, Harvard and LSE. We have on-the-ground performers - EABL and Mumias being managed by young Kenyans. Yet we still export raw materials for processing abroad.

Originally Posted by Atabong

Big business guys have even found a way round to make seeds sterile; so I cannot plant the seeds of imported apples etc I buy on the streets in Nairobi, Kinshasa, N’djamena or Accra. Yet the same people are very quick to shout food aid! Food aid! These folks are dying! they need food aid!

Some Monsanto seeds are already in our food, Kenyans!

The contamination was detected by Greenpeace International, which in co-operation with environmental and farmers' organisations in Kenya, commissioned tests of 19 seed varieties bought in stores in key maize-producing areas across Kenya.

The tests, by an independent European laboratory, revealed that Pioneer's seed maize PHB 30V53, sold in the Eldoret region of Kenya, was contaminated with Mon810 maize, a variant that is genetically engineered to be insect-resistant.

The full article here. Also here. I see this as a colonial conspiracy!!! Why did this end up as such small news. Monsanto could sue and end up owning all our food, just like they did to the Canadian farmer who's crop was contaminated in the same way.

[t.D.A.]

Originally Posted by Type R

This is one thing I have never understood. We have no shortage of the best intellect - Kenyans in MIT, Harvard and LSE. We have on-the-ground performers - EABL and Mumias being managed by young Kenyans. Yet we still export raw materials for processing abroad.



Some Monsanto seeds are already in our food, Kenyans!

The contamination was detected by Greenpeace International, which in co-operation with environmental and farmers' organisations in Kenya, commissioned tests of 19 seed varieties bought in stores in key maize-producing areas across Kenya.

The tests, by an independent European laboratory, revealed that Pioneer's seed maize PHB 30V53, sold in the Eldoret region of Kenya, was contaminated with Mon810 maize, a variant that is genetically engineered to be insect-resistant.

The full article here. Also here. I see this as a colonial conspiracy!!! Why did this end up as such small news. Monsanto could sue and end up owning all our food, just like they did to the Canadian farmer who's crop was contaminated in the same way.

One would think considering how much access we have to Western knowledge and information and with the plethora of educated professionals worldwide we would at the very least have found a way to send the information (even if not money or ourselves or our skills) to our people back home so they can do something with it. After all, there are millions of unemployed people who are going to no use at home who with just a little education could probably take our continent quite far.

As for Monsanto, if ever there has been an institution that I simply do not trust AT ALL, it is Monsanto.

[Type R]

Originally Posted by t.D.A.

One would think considering how much access we have to Western knowledge and information and with the plethora of educated professionals worldwide we would at the very least have found a way to send the information (even if not money or ourselves or our skills) to our people back home so they can do something with it. After all, there are millions of unemployed people who are going to no use at home who with just a little education could probably take our continent quite far.

Obstacles I have identified with my own eyes: -

a) Tribalism. This hampers organizational growth.
b) Individualism and egoism. Westerners are very good at building functional institutions. Africans tend to compromise the whole in order to satisfy the interests of a few, sometimes just their own personal selves. Buying massive four-wheel drives, getting bodyguards when a super-powerful man like Alan Greenspan used to walk alone.
c) Irrationalism. A mzungu often looks at issues in a simple, straight-forward and plain manner. Africans often tend to over-complicate matters, bringing in emotions, fears, tribal suspicions into daily dealings. This leads to lack of decisiveness in controversial matters.

Remember the Nike ad: "Just do it."

[t.D.A.]

I'd also add my observation that White people who control society tend to remain steadfast in the pursuit of the outcome - e.g. to maintain dominant in the world oil market- whereas we as Africans tend to get locked into discussing details that when all is said and done don't really matter e.g. discussing who should be in power as opposed to what policies we want out of our leaders.