Is Africa the Problem? or the Problem Africans?

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by hallo moto

hey my friend...we africans have very very very low iq....i have heard afriend of mine who is from my tribe saying somethings that i personaly as afriend for alongtime and atribesman decided that i dont think i wanna hang around him anymore...nd yes i've heard alot of these from many black africans..we are cursed.

do you mean black people are mentally inferior? how did you reach this conclusion that

Originally Posted by hallo moto

hey my friend...we africans have very very very low iq....

please state the definition of iq; are you by some chance in touch with factors that influence iq? what exactly did you want to say? you may as well want to browse through this: stability of intelligence from preschool to adolescene: the influence of social and family risk factors, jstor coverage: vols. 1 - 73, 1930-2002,

…a multiple environmental risk score was calculated for each child by counting the number of high-risk conditions from 10 risk factors: mother's behavior, mother's developmental beliefs, mother's anxiety, mother's mental health, mother's educational attainment, family social support, family size, major stressful life events, occupation of head of household, and disadvantaged minority status. Multiple risk scores explained one-third to one-half of iq variance at 4 and 13 years. The stability between 4- and 13-year… even after prior measurement of child iq was accounted for; the pattern of risk was less important than the total amount of risk present in the child's context…

i'll advise you 'hit your harmer' on curse and not talk of scientific facts because you make your arguments sound ludicrous

[youngben]

Originally Posted by ilongi

for fear of sounding simplistic, ever wondered why at an individual level no one and i repeat no one (indian/ asian, white or whatever) can defeat them in almost any task/ goal/ achievement or whatever you would like to undertake!! i mean are our brothers and sisters are doing very well at an international level? in all corporations? decision makers, strategists etc etc but, try and accomplish anything as group or society, oh! lawdy lord chaos. Quick question " whats harder than calculus?" "black unity" majangwa are you reading this?

Nice post, but it raises more questions, because that there is an unjustified condemnation, especially since the definition of black is extremely elastic!

How black are you? How black am i? yes, that’s the question,

Am i black because of my skin?
Am i black because of my nature?
Am i black because of my culture?
Am i black because of my origin?
what makes me black?

Do blacks identify each other as “we blacks”?
Are lighter skinned blacks willing and ready to be identified as blacks? or are they unenviably pushed in that grouping because they are not white?
Do we accept our “pointis” as blacks, or are they not black enough?.
what is black?? - without that definition, there cannot exist black unity,
Are the afroamericans black? are they americans,? are they displaced africans? how do they see themselves? africans don’t identify with them, they are akataas, so what are they? who are they?

Is black unity achievable?

The way i see it african is plagued by tribal issues that are divisive, most cultures and societies that are developed, there smallest social units are nations unto themselves (germanic tribe, saxons, anglos) and because of mixed marriages the small differences have been smoothed over, they have a one ness so to speak. Basically we cannot and should not compare ourselves with the west, because we shall never be exposed to the horrors that unified them.

[Type R]

Originally Posted by youngben

The way i see it african is plagued by tribal issues that are divisive, most cultures and societies that are developed, there smallest social units are nations unto themselves (germanic tribe, saxons, anglos) and because of mixed marriages the small differences have been smoothed over, they have a one ness so to speak. Basically we cannot and should not compare ourselves with the west, because we shall never be exposed to the horrors that unified them.

This is an approach I have also considered.

People think Africa has suffered but in actual fact, "we ain't seen nothing."

In another thread last year, I compared the 20th Century wars of Europe vs those of Africa. I do not have exact figures but I don't know if all the wars and dictators and genocides in Africa - Idi Amin, Siad Barre, Bokassa, Mengistu - could top the 17 million who died in World War I alone, in Europe.

On the other hand, youngben, unity can also be brought about by political force. Many emperors have historically united small tribes and kingdoms into empires, and even today, China is a massive nation held together by a complex system of force. In fact, they want Tibet and Taiwan too!!! By force!!! (But it has to be an intelligent forcefulness, one that gives and takes, so as not to foment rebellion.)

Africa can be united by force?

[youngben]

Originally Posted by type r

this is an approach i have also considered. People think africa has suffered but in actual fact, "we ain't seen nothing." in another thread last year, i compared the 20th century wars of europe vs those of africa. I do not have exact figures but i don't know if all the wars and dictators and genocides in africa - idi amin, siad barre, bokassa, mengistu - could top the 17 million who died in world war i alone, in europe. (but it has to be an intelligent forcefulness, one that gives and takes, so as not to foment rebellion.) africa can be united by force?

very true type r, you will find in this thread, i have cited dictatorship as one of the major unifying factors of the europeans, from feudal states, to kingdoms to empires.

Unfortunately we dont need visionaries as leaders, we dont need professors, we just need one nasty mutha****a who will ride rough shod over africans.

I can compare it to the very hotly contested argument of long ago, where a woman would feel unloved if she was not beaten by the husband (feminists, please take 2 deep breaths, meza mate - now listen, thats a fact there, am not being snide),

in attempt to validate my argument, lets look into the recent past of african countries that have been ruled by force, and lets judge.
Libya
rwanda
uganda
nigeria
egypt
angola
zimbambwe does not qualify, is not a dictatorship. (and others)

Now someone please compare them with "democracies",

(Mashada, whats up with the reformatting, kwani you are against capital letters and paragraphing)

[HUH?]

Originally Posted by youngben

very true type r, you will find in this thread, i have cited dictatorship as one of the major unifying factors of the europeans, from feudal states, to kingdoms to empires.

Unfortunately we dont need visionaries as leaders, we dont need professors, we just need one nasty mutha****a who will ride rough shod over africans.

I can compare it to the very hotly contested argument of long ago, where a woman would feel unloved if she was not beaten by the husband (feminists, please take 2 deep breaths, meza mate - now listen, thats a fact there, am not being snide),

in attempt to validate my argument, lets look into the recent past of african countries that have been ruled by force, and lets judge.
Libya
rwanda
uganda
nigeria
egypt
angola
zimbambwe does not qualify, is not a dictatorship. (and others)

Now someone please compare them with "democracies",

(Mashada, whats up with the reformatting, kwani you are against capital letters and paragraphing)

a touch diabolique, but i see your point. infact i hadn't thought of it that way.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by youngben

Is black unity achievable?

Can such a question validly be asked? Who is an African child?

[youngben]

I am inclined to ask again,

How many people here believe america is a democracy??

Americans would not know what a democracy is if it came and bit them in the arse, infact i wonder why they promote democracy in african countries, yet it is the system that has systematically destroyed africans, and if it has not it definitely will, also keeping in mind their system is not democratic.

Democracy cannot be achieved in a heterogenous society like africa, it can be achieved in homogenous societies though to some limited success – the smaller a group the more effective a democracy.

Democracy allows an interest group to only further and promote its interests. America’s political system is republic. If we are to really look into democracy. A democracy is a rule of the mob - in no uncertain terms. If you know anything about a mob, then you know the headache we are in for by pursuing this course! once you have a mob mentality, you don’t need to a leader, all you need is to a mob psychologist to be president and to remain there.

Democracy:

• a government of the masses.
• authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
• results in mobocracy.
• attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights.
• attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether is be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
• results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy

.

More here: republic vs. Democracy

Brings back the question: Are africans stupid??

We (kenyans actually) can actually sit, receive and use systems that the people giving us have actually rejected, na sio democracy peke yake, who knows the origin of the 8-4-4 system (i don’t but i hear it was modeled on america) africans are not the problem,

Again i repeat african leaders are the peoblem, they quickly succumb to pressures to join the whitemans club and for a song and without consideration sell out our fundamentals for progression.

[Type R]

There is a culture of industry and productivity that is missing in Africa. In many countries worldwide, you will find people trying to produce commercial products - toys, clothes, machines, software, medicine, aeroplanes, guns, etc. There is a focus and fascination on the product, sometimes even at the expense of a certain amount of financial profitability (Mercedes is not a very profitable company, by modern automobile standards).

In Africa, we tend to focus on money "chap chap."

[t.D.A.]

Originally Posted by Type R

There is a culture of industry and productivity that is missing in Africa. In many countries worldwide, you will find people trying to produce commercial products - toys, clothes, machines, software, medicine, aeroplanes, guns, etc. There is a focus and fascination on the product, sometimes even at the expense of a certain amount of financial profitability (Mercedes is not a very profitable company, by modern automobile standards).

In Africa, we tend to focus on money "chap chap."

I agree that in Africa we focus way too much on the short term at the expense of the long term and that culture of 'fear of loss' and 'immediate greed' is definitely a huge obstacle standing in our way.

[Type R]

Continental population densities: -

Asia, 87 per sq. km.
Europe, 70 per sq. km.
Africa, 30 per sq. km.
North America 21 per sq. km
South America, 20 per sq. km.
Australia, 2.8 per sq. km.

Don't know if this will help this discussion.