[YB*]

Originally Posted by ndigila

Are you sure it is the same God?

Christianity - Jesus is God
Judaism - Jesus was an impostor
Islam - Jesus was a prophet
Buddhism - Jesus was a buddha
Hinduism - Jesus could be God (but in this case God can be whoever/whatever you want)

If the same God who became man in the form of Jesus told these other four religions that Jesus did exist, but was just a normal human, and then watch the religions fight for supremacy, then my friend, that God cannot be trusted.

Ndigila, without going into many referals, i would like to point out that though Jesus was divine, he was made God by man in 325 AD at the council of Nicea, at that point there were 2 distinct schools of christianity,

Arianism (believed that jesus was not God, that he was begotten, he did not exist before time with God, therefore cannot be God equal) Which makes sense to me.

And trinitiranism, which exists today,mainly because it was backed by Constantine, the roman emporer (sp).

Jesus was Gods son - granted. But whether Jesus is God, that becomes arguable yet again. "I am of my father" - I am not my father.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by YB*

Ndigila, without going into many referals, i would like to point out that though Jesus was divine, he was made God by man in 325 AD at the council of Nicea, at that point there were 2 distinct schools of christianity,

Arianism (believed that jesus was not God, that he was begotten, he did not exist before time with God, therefore cannot be God equal) Which makes sense to me.

And trinitiranism, which exists today,mainly because it was backed by Constantine, the roman emporer (sp).

Jesus was Gods son - granted. But whether Jesus is God, that becomes arguable yet again. "I am of my father" - I am not my father.

No, no, no, there's quotes of ante-nicene fathers who believed that Jesus was God. For instance, St Irenaeus wrote In His unbounded love, God became what we are that He might make us what He is.. Arianism's driving force was the patron-client and father son relationships that existed in the Roman empire and not Christian theology.

The use of the word 'son' and the word 'begotten' when referring to humans are not the same that describe the divine.

[reggie_woic]

Jesus was Gods son - granted

assuming that this is from the bible, then the very same bible implies that J
esus DID exist before* his birth story, and further implies that he IS^ God.

* He existed before Abraham
^ i quote "I and the father are one"

this wasn't difficult to google

[YB*]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

assuming that this is from the bible, then the very same bible implies that J
esus DID exist before* his birth story, and further implies that he IS^ God.

* He existed before Abraham
^ i quote "I and the father are one"

this wasn't difficult to google

It isn't actually - dificult to google that is.

But you got the short end of the stick, for argument sake, you cannot believe wholesomely what one says about themselves, and thats the whole argument,. What did others say about Jesus, not what he claimed!

John said he was Gods "begotten" son, now google from this angle, as a christian you are conditioned never to question or test a statement, I do test, i check what Jesus claims against others.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by YB*

It isn't actually - dificult to google that is.

But you got the short end of the stick, for argument sake, you cannot believe wholesomely what one says about themselves, and thats the whole argument,. What did others say about Jesus, not what he claimed!

John said he was Gods "begotten" son, now google from this angle, as a christian you are conditioned never to question or test a statement, I do test, i check what Jesus claims against others.

So what did John teach his students (Ignatius and Polycarp) about the divinity of Jesus? What did Polycarp teach Irenaeus about the divinity of Jesus? What did Irenaeus teach ...?

The cycle goes on.

I think at this point you have to clarify who you refer to by others. Is it people outside the 12 apostles?

[YB*]

Originally Posted by ndigila

So what did John teach his students (Ignatius and Polycarp) about the divinity of Jesus? What did Polycarp teach Irenaeus about the divinity of Jesus? What did Irenaeus teach ...?

The cycle goes on.

I think at this point you have to clarify who you refer to by others. Is it people outside the 12 apostles?

Ndigila thats rather obvious, John (his disciple) was repeating verbatim, and given the his particular relationship with jesus - implied in the bible and conjectured in the outside world, I would expect a more firm belief in him of him.

And while on John the disciple, is there another apostle who calls Jesus God so explicitly?? Am not challenging, am asking an honest question??

So yes, apart from his apostles and subsequent disciples who else?, Coz John the baptist does not call him God?

[grip_daddy]

Originally Posted by rake81

like someone said - you may have to wait till you die
but in the meantime - just be a good person
treat everyone like you'd like to treat them - and have a special
place for God in your heart - i think thats what truly matters

What if you are a Muslim? You would want to bomb some and go straight to heaven, wont you?

[rastrat]

its always difficult to know which is the right church today.becoz the numbers of churches is increasing everyday.this church critisies the other in favor of winning abig number of worshippers.but in my own understing, the Holy church is you,be coz God does not stay on that building, He stays in the soul of Every human bieng.He will not judge the church that you attend but he will judge you and me accordingly.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by YB*

And while on John the disciple, is there another apostle who calls Jesus God so explicitly?? Am not challenging, am asking an honest question??

Yes, but most of the apostles didn't write anything down, they simply established churches with bishops and deacons to safeguard what they've been taught for future generations.

Originally Posted by YB*

So yes, apart from his apostles and subsequent disciples who else?, Coz John the baptist does not call him God?

I really don't know, because only the apostles and the myrrh-bearing women witnessed Jesus resurrection.

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by rastrat

its always difficult to know which is the right church today.becoz the numbers of churches is increasing everyday.this church critisies the other in favor of winning abig number of worshippers.but in my own understing, the Holy church is you,be coz God does not stay on that building, He stays in the soul of Every human bieng.He will not judge the church that you attend but he will judge you and me accordingly.

rastrat, the church is the body of Christ united in doctrine and communion with Christ. Doctrine is very important. Consider this Bible verse
1 Tim 4:16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

So while we agree that the church isn't the building. Two different Christian gatherings with different doctrinal beliefs cannot be considered the same church. The question "Which church is the right church?" should be unavoidable for every sincere Christian.