[vokemondo]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Reggie,

you've got to be kidding.

Here's a simple hypothetical scenario. Assume a bunch of hired assassins came to kill your dad. You know very well he's in the house. They ask you "Is you dad in the house?" If you answer YES, they'll go in and kill him. If you answer NO, they'll leave and your dad won't be killed. What would you answer, yes or no?

If any Christian here can honestly tell me that they'd rather answer YES and have their dad's killed (and therefore please god by not sinning), instead of answering NO and saving their dad (but displeasing god by sinning), then clearly this religion thing has screwed people over more than I thought! You're the kind of guy who'd tell your chic YES if she asked you "Do you think these jeans make me look fat?" or "Does that chic have better legs than mine?" Or if your 9 year old daughter is the dumbest and fattest person in her class, then one day she comes crying to you asking you "Daddy, the kids in school say I'm dumb and fat. Is that true?", you'd tell her "YES it's true", coz you don't want to lie and displease god. WTF? How can someone honestly have such a radical, fundamentalist and foolish opinion???

The fact is, there is no absolute law. By that I mean that there is no law that will always hold no matter what! Every law can (and should) be broken in some justifiable scenarios. e.g. murder is a sin, but if you do it in justifiable self-defense, then your act is not a sin, both in man's and god's eyes. Give me ANY sin or law, and I can create a scenario where it would be justified to break it!

If we simple men can clearly see that no law can be absolute and what is judged as right or wrong depends a lot on the situation at hand, then clearly an all-wise god can see that too!

ATLian, wat I av jus realized is that you think that it is our actions that save us. But it isn't. It is the grace of God thru Jesus Christ. Yaani, wheather one is saved or not determines our actions. Pray 4 God's Grace.

[bible_reader]

Atlian;Onan was killed immediately by god for his sin. He never had the chance to get his act together and ask for forgiveness.

Bible reader:jasakwa pls allow me to respond to atlian,first of all atlian you bettr know that it is the will of God for you to be saved.Look by then the law was the in thing,not like now where grace is enforced.Onan commited a sin with intention just like todays prosecutors will rash for a pre-meditated crime ususally purnished with higher degree.The bible indicates that onan did not just commit the rebellion once but repeatedly the word whenever has been used.So logically someone who repeats a sin and doesnt repent suarely according to laws of that time had to be purnished,and if he repeated rebellion then he must have enough time to repent but didnt.

Atlian: Judah committed adultery. He did not pray or ask for forgiveness for it. 3 months later that he learnt his daughter-in-law was pregnant. He knew she had committed adultery (since Er and Onan were both dead) and he wanted to have her killed, as god had said should happen to those who commit adultery. When she told him that she was the whore he slept with, and that the kids were his, then suddenly stoning and burning her to death was thrown out of the equation.
Bible reader: Atlian dont use one phrase of the bible alone to make conclusion,look you are right in judahs partial judgement,and that is exactly among the reason Jesus came,because the elders of law used to apply the law partially and therefore burden the people.God honored repentance but man didnt always,

Atlian: So Judah facks around, no big deal. He impregnates Tamar, no big deal. Coz it's a man of god Tamar facked and who made her pregnant, no big deal. Any of these sins, if committed by anybody else, would have resulted in a painful death commanded by god.

Bible reader: Judah didnt commit the sin of incest with intention he commited adultery by sleeping with a whoreand he acknowledged that his sin was worse.and it is even stated that he never slept with her again.Atlian God forgives ,he is merciful,just repent your sins.

Atlian: Back to my question - WHY does Judah get the exemption? Why does Tamar get to live only because the kids in her wombs are those of an adulterous man of god? Why does god give his "great" men a pass, and others get killed for doing the same thing? How do I know if I sin whether god will immediately strike me down, or let me live to be a great man of his?
[/quote]

Bible reader: Judah and Tamar both live because they seek mercy and repented.God had a plan through that seed to bring a branch from the line of David.So that the entire world can know that God doesnt discriminate against pple considered sinners.If you sin repent and dont repeat the sin and rebellion like onan,accept Jesus and recieve the grace by faith.

[jaramba]

what if during masturbation I am thinking about my wife or my fiancee for that matter, is that sin also?

[Valhalla]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

not all sins are listed in the bible..so you won't find this one.
speaking as a catholic: the sinful fantasies which are inseparable from masturbation make it a sin

On this one I agree with reggie here.
Folks seem to search the Bible for some clear abominations-what they do not realize is that sin is usually very little of what we actually do. In the Old Testatment, as I recall, there are no implications of thoughts being as sin. But as you all know, Jesus clearly 'implies' that our sins start in the mind first. Remember his words (paraphrased here), "he who looks at a woman lustfully commits adultery". Well, we can nit-pick on this all day and say that there is no 'woman' when one masturbates, and that at this technicality there's no sin; or we can wisen up and see reality as it is in Jesus' words.

It is sometimes problematic to take any faith through the rigors of formal logic. Matters of faith are supernatural-logic is natural; there is indeed, to some extent, a clear incompatibility.

[karau mjanja]

I think it is a sin for the unmarried.For the married its a sin if you imagine none other than your spouse.because that wil amount to adultery.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

Honestly alot of dudes and chicks do it atleast once a week.Who knows may be even some acclaimed priests do it in the silence of the night.

Is it forbiden in the Bible?

Whether it is forbidden or encouraged in the Bible or Koran or what ever is not the issue here but these facts we must remember:

Masturbation is a disease condition and requires a cure. To put it bluntly, it is abuse of self by self and stems from aware or unknowing social ostracization.

Masturbation causes horrible changes to brain and body chemistry. It stimulates acetylcholine/parasympathetic nervous functions and disrupts the livers release of enzymes that synthesize neurotransmitters, acetylcholine, dopamine, serotonin. The liver’s ability to release enzymes that aid in hormone production is affected, so the brain and adrenal glands produce too much dopamine, nor-epinephrine, epinephrine and other hormones and neural transmitters distressing liver and nervous system function, erectile dysfunction (soft or weak erection) and seminal leakage. Semen leakage is a sign that the parasympathetic nerves, which keeps the ejaculation valve shut and hold the erection for optimum performance is weakening as a result of masturbation.

The outer cell linings of the penis/vagina fade away leaving the nerve endings oversensitive so it’s very understandable why masturbation is addictive. Added to the fact that the liver is in jeopardy and other vital organs malfunctioning, the erection weak and soft, the masturbation guy cannot perform for the required time before ejaculation and leaves his woman reeling helplessly for orgasm. No greater hell awaits the defeatist man living with a woman in a world of sexual frustration. We just don’t need the Bible or Koran or what ever to see the truth, for truth justifies itself.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by vokemondo

ATLian, wat I av jus realized is that you think that it is our actions that save us. But it isn't. It is the grace of God thru Jesus Christ. Yaani, wheather one is saved or not determines our actions. Pray 4 God's Grace.

Saved from what please? I'm lost

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by ndigila

Was Onan killed because he spilled his semen on the ground or because he didn't fulfill his duty as a brother-in-law?

What you quoted above is not masturbation, It's what is known in medical jargon as coitus interruptus.Onan does his thing quite all right but when the stuff is trying to push through he withdraws the dic and waste it

[missed call]

having read all the different explanations and replies to this, i got to state something here. that one, God's law and stands are independent of time and people's wishes. two, a sin will remain a sin, from generation to generation, from tongue to tongue. three, a sin doesnt have to be explicitly stated in the bible(or the 10 commands) for it to qualify to be a sin. four, u got to knw there are weights (Heb 12:1), leave alone sins.
having said that, ur conscience should be able to help u judge urself on any matter. and what i'l always ask maself "can i do this in the full presence of Jesus?" or "can i request Jesus to accompany me to do this?". that way, you are able to answer urself on any matter. and if something aint clear, we have Holy Spirit, who we can pray to help us reason in accordance to God's will.
to me, masturbation is a sin, whether u do it or a pastor or a bishop does it. it doesnt matter who commits what sin. it remains a sin. and God's laws are clear.

[Atabong]

Originally Posted by missed call

having read all the different explanations and replies to this, i got to state something here. that one, God's law and stands are independent of time and people's wishes. two, a sin will remain a sin, from generation to generation, from tongue to tongue. three, a sin doesnt have to be explicitly stated in the bible(or the 10 commands) for it to qualify to be a sin. four, u got to knw there are weights (Heb 12:1), leave alone sins.
having said that, ur conscience should be able to help u judge urself on any matter. and what i'l always ask maself "can i do this in the full presence of Jesus?" or "can i request Jesus to accompany me to do this?". that way, you are able to answer urself on any matter. and if something aint clear, we have Holy Spirit, who we can pray to help us reason in accordance to God's will.
to me, masturbation is a sin, whether u do it or a pastor or a bishop does it. it doesnt matter who commits what sin. it remains a sin. and God's laws are clear.

There's this four men two ladies gang of armed bandits living in a fully furnished underground bunker having trouble doing the daily chores, so the men kidnap an inner city girl at five. This kid is brought home to much cajoling but she does all the work all the same. She soon forgets her parents and grows up in her ‘adopted’ home. At ten, the men start partaking of her cake but the ladies would some times protect her. Soon after, she is taken out on ‘special missions’. She learns the trade quickly, enjoys the ‘good life’ and winds up a ‘born killer’, in fact her intelligence, efficacy and beauty earns her the code name ‘T’ at just eighteen when two of her horde men got slain in a ‘difficult mission’. At twenty-three she has committed the most horrible atrocities of all time; not only that, she created and owns a couple of other gangs without the neighborhood. The ferocity of her activities grew and she very quickly rises up the ranks and becomes an invisible, wanted living-legend. She makes friends in the highest of places though she can neither read nor write. She is feared by ‘outsiders’ and admired by her contemporaries but luck is loosing out on her and she winds up in a secret police dragnet and brought before the Judge. The case is still ongoing but as fate would have it, one of the jurors deliberating on the case is special; how? ‘T’ nipped this juror’s mum and ‘fell in love’ with her dad, the juror has just learned. Assume you are this juror, how will you be judging T?