[Kurio-City]

Hey y'all! Was again trying to get a better understanding of the trinity but since I didn't want to reinvent the wheel I looked to find old posts on it but I only found these two:

http://www.mashada.com/forums/religi...its-knees.html

Three Dispensations and Trinity

I read both from head-to-toe but I still have my question unanswered. Please no attacks against Christianity or religion as a whole here as I am hoping for an answer specifically about the concept of trinity. I believe in God, Jesus and a the Holy Spirit but I am just seeking teachings on how the three are one i.e. Jesus = God and Holy Spirit = God.

In trying to get a better understanding of the trinity, I went and did research on the internet to find direct quotes and explanations from the bible and couldn't find it. Instead, I read that apparently the concept of trinity originated in the 4th and 5th centuries AD, with the rationale for provided by Augustine of Hippo (354-430), but is not explicitly in the bible (The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity )...explains why I had the trouble finding it in the first place : |

Except for inserts that were made later into the new versions, I read that there is no unambiguous reference to the trinity in the entire New Testament, nor are there any strong suggestions or foreshadowings of the trinity of persons in the Old Testament. I confimed this when I tried to search the bible. So obviously this raised alarms in my head as how could I be convinced to believe in if it is not in the Holy book in the first place??? Then I found about the Unitarian Churches of God who don't believe in the trinity. They believe that the trinity is not monotheic and that instead the God is one as the all powerful and his son was Jesus as a seperate entity begotten by a virgin...I didn't even know these guys existed!! I thought to be a Chrsitian you have to believe in the trinity...I guess you learn something new everyday.

Anyone know of this? And if this post-insertion of the trinity in the bible is the truth and fact, how come most Christians do not see it this way?

I am Kurious...Any trinity believers out there with answers?

[youngben]

Originally Posted by Kurio-City

Hey y'all! Was again trying to get a better understanding of the trinity but since I didn't want to reinvent the wheel I looked to find old posts on it but I only found these two:

http://www.mashada.com/forums/religi...its-knees.html

Three Dispensations and Trinity

I read both from head-to-toe but I still have my question unanswered. Please no attacks against Christianity or religion as a whole here as I am hoping for an answer specifically about the concept of trinity. I believe in God, Jesus and a the Holy Spirit but I am just seeking teachings on how the three are one i.e. Jesus = God and Holy Spirit = God.

In trying to get a better understanding of the trinity, I went and did research on the internet to find direct quotes and explanations from the bible and couldn't find it. Instead, I read that apparently the concept of trinity originated in the 4th and 5th centuries AD, with the rationale for provided by Augustine of Hippo (354-430), but is not explicitly in the bible (The Doctrine of the Holy Trinity )...explains why I had the trouble finding it in the first place : |

Except for inserts that were made later into the new versions, I read that there is no unambiguous reference to the trinity in the entire New Testament, nor are there any strong suggestions or foreshadowings of the trinity of persons in the Old Testament. I confimed this when I tried to search the bible. So obviously this raised alarms in my head as how could I be convinced to believe in if it is not in the Holy book in the first place??? Then I found about the Unitarian Churches of God who don't believe in the trinity. They believe that the trinity is not monotheic and that instead the God is one as the all powerful and his son was Jesus as a seperate entity begotten by a virgin...I didn't even know these guys existed!! I thought to be a Chrsitian you have to believe in the trinity...I guess you learn something new everyday.

Anyone know of this? And if this post-insertion of the trinity in the bible is the truth and fact, how come most Christians do not see it this way?

I am Kurious...Any trinity believers out there with answers?

Apparently you can mock God or Jesus but the spirit is unforgiving.
The explanations out there are that God is superior and created all.
But the again there is the holy spirit that can be unforgiving,
Just by the language used there is something called the evil spirit, its eact opposite, by defining the spirit as 'holy' it leads one to believe that there are other spirits, I have specificallt refered to 'evil' due to its heavy criticism on many thing, but there could be limitless spirits out there

Also keep in mind, some of things are made up as we go along
For example the Catholic church has decided there is no purgatory after all

Laughable

[Kurio-City]

Originally Posted by youngben

Apparently you can mock God or Jesus but the spirit is unforgiving.
The explanations out there are that God is superior and created all.
Laughable

Makes sense. Since we know that God is forgiving then, it therefore implies that He is not the same as the holy spirit. If they were, I would assume all would be forgiving.

Originally Posted by youngben

Also keep in mind, some of things are made up as we go along
For example the Catholic church has decided there is no purgatory after all

Laughable

Again, I repeat myself...who knows what else they have made up : | yet I guess they still seem to fool ppl to follow them...who knows how...

[Kurio-City]

I find it so funny how no Christian who believes in the trinity has comeforth until now to answer my questions...is it that no one believes in the trinity anymore or that the trinity is truly non-existent and a factual make-up of the Catholic Church as is stated and the believers are stumped in what to say because there are no quotes in the bible to prove otherwise?

According to the recent changes in the limbo laws etc Catholic Church...I would think it is the latter...Thanks for giving me an answer to my questions guys, silence tells it all...funny how the Church can make ppl believe in something so much so that they follow blindly without seeking too know the truth themselves...

[reggie_woic]

maybe we christians concern ourselves with issues that are more pertinent to our teachings, rather than loopholes that non-believers use to fill their voids of emptiness.

tell me, does poking holes in christianity get you off?


tertullian writings
"We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit. . . .

further reading here

[Kurio-City]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

[color="Indigo"]maybe we christians concern ourselves with issues that are more pertinent to our teachings, rather than loopholes that non-believers use to fill their voids of emptiness.

tell me, does poking holes in christianity get you off?

Ati more "pertinent in our teachings"?? So you mean to tell me the trinity is NOT pertinent in christian teachings?

It seems like when you realize you have no answers or are in a stump, you either ignore the qs, attack the person asking it or attempt to change the topic somehow...Just answer my question...If you can't answer then say you can't but stop claiming you have better things to do.

PS: Poking holes in xtianity doesnt get me off...If you read my entire post I said..."Please no attacks against Christianity or religion as a whole here as I am hoping for an answer specifically about the concept of trinity". And I continued to point out a church that does not believe in it to show that I am not attacking the whole religion...I am only concerned with one specific belief here i.e. the trinity. I get off on getting people thinking about facts rather than hearsay to believe in things...

So Reggie, when you show me that verse in the bible about the TRINITY, I will close this chapter. But telling from how u r ignoring the qs...I won't hold my breath

[ATLian]

Reggie,

you're having a bad month. Many of your rebuttals have been exposed as been too weak. Kwani what's going on in Wichita? Kurio-city is right. How many teachings in Christianity are more important than the concept of the Trinity? I think it's the most important concept in Christianity, because without that concept, then Jesus is not god.

From what I've read, there is no Biblical reference to the Trinity. It was yet another Christian dogma that was voted on by a group of chauvinistic and subjective men, then ram as absolute Biblical truth.

Also, saying you can blaspheme against god and Jesus and get forgiven, while blaspheming against the Holy Spirit gets you death, despite the fact that they are all the same thing, makes absolutely no sense!

[ndigila]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Reggie,

you're having a bad month. Many of your rebuttals have been exposed as been too weak. Kwani what's going on in Wichita? Kurio-city is right. How many teachings in Christianity are more important than the concept of the Trinity? I think it's the most important concept in Christianity, because without that concept, then Jesus is not god.

From what I've read, there is no Biblical reference to the Trinity. It was yet another Christian dogma that was voted on by a group of chauvinistic and subjective men, then ram as absolute Biblical truth.

Also, saying you can blaspheme against god and Jesus and get forgiven, while blaspheming against the Holy Spirit gets you death, despite the fact that they are all the same thing, makes absolutely no sense!

What in your opinion is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit?

[Kinene wa Karani]

I am watching this thread but I know I should not hold my breath, faithfuls don't like such questions.

I hope someone responds to the concerns raised by the thread starter. I will stay clear of revealing what I think about the whole thing lest they declare a holy war on me.

[reggie_woic]

Fine, i apologize for bytching back there although i made clear what i believe right under it. of course the trinity is pertinent to our teachings...its just that reference to the trinity is so explicitly backed in the bible i felt that this post was a waste of time. again, sorry.

So ATLian and Kurio, you wonder where the trinity is mentioned in the bible.
well, the word "trinity" itself isn't in the bible. but in a nutshell
matt 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

if you want, go through the tertullian writings in my last post.

p.s ATLian, there's nothing going on in wichita (as always)