[teejay]

Originally Posted by poko-hunter

@ Kemi... i'm using my head to formulate my doubts and questions regarding christianity. kila mtu ana akili yake, let them express themselves. u seem to be a christian who has 'FAITH'. but ask yourself one question, who has ever been to hell and come back? i know catholics believe that V. Mary revealed some secrets to some 3 kids in fatima, portugal and one of them included a vision of hell.

Our Lady of Fatima - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but somehow i have doubts. someone could have doctored this story. why should i believe in what people somewhere on the other side of the earth believe? dont i have a mind of my own? plus with time, i have come to doubt the catholic church.

u said i seem to refer to the Bible as the Book of the Jews. i'm not. Jews have thier Torah.

if my history is right, the books that make up the bible were voted upon by some prominent individuals sometime in the 4th century. it is said this is where they decided which books make up the BIBLE. so it wasnt God who determined the books of the bible.

Biblevotes

what about the so called new gospels that have been found. gospels of Mary Magdalene, Gospel of Thomas some of which claim Jesus was a normal citizen of Jerusalem and had a wife. They refer him only as TEACHER not SON OF GOD.

it somehow clicked to me that the church and the roman emperor decided the only way they can have a grab of Rome and unite its people, it was through religion and how better than to make Jesus, the SON OF GOD. no wife, no children....may i mention this is not normal for a Jewish man. Jewish tradition wants men to marry. Jesus at 30 must have had a gachungwa somewhere.

anyway, i'm not trying to make u guyz break away from christianity. i'm just trying to make u guys open your eyes a lil' bit more. i am sure God allows us to ask questions.

It is not possible for you to differentiate your stuff before you present them as facts? Don't you think there is some difference between Romanism and Christianity as a whole. When you do that, you will begin getting yourself out of the confusion you have solely plunged yourself into.

[teejay]

Originally Posted by youngben

Long post - poleni

YB perhaps I should begin by telling you that generalization is best kept out of this discussion. That said and done we may now say that, yes we have idiocy within Christianity, and such that has contributed to a large extent, the filth that now surrounds Christianity. It may be chocolate sweet in the mouths of some brethren to say that Christians will be favoured during the Judgment day, but the stark reality is that everyone will be subjected to very fair trial.

You also wrote, Jesus himself did not say pray through me, that has evolved over the years

Well consider the phrase below.

"And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name(read through me- Jesus), that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name (read through me- Jesus), I will do it."

This to me does not sound like John's own words. John himself says that he wrote this things for those who were not there so that they may believe. Indeed his Gospel targets post Christ era populations. He is witness to the happenings of those days.-John 14:13-14

I wonder what the word witness(ing) means to you. I find it ludicrous that you would deny one act of witnessing and accept another. The criteria you are deploying to deduce your assumptions is still unknown to me. Could you please elaborate, so that we can know why Moses' witness that God Himself wrote the 10 Commands is lesser in weight than the writings on the wall.

YB let us assume that you the sole authority through which we can get Oranges from a perimetered Garden with only one entrance. We go further to assume that you have set some condition for us to access this garden. You love all of us of course, but in our midst there are those who despise you and even refuse to acknowledge your authority. They pelt and even kill the messengers you have sent to them. Your condition is that we acknowledge you because in so doing everyone of us shall be forever assured of your love and your goodies. Is it not right for us to say that those who don't accept (believe in) you will not see inside of the garden. Now is this not the same as saying that only those who accept (believe in) you will see or enter into the garden.

You must also ask yourself why it said that only those believe shall enter/ see the kingdom. This must mean that there are unbelievers, otherwise the statement would read everyone will see the kingdom. Note that there is no differentiating in the latter statement between believers and unbelievers, all shall see the kingdom regardless of their belief.

You wrote, he belief that God will send his beloved children to hell is so absurd, in that by that mere statement you have turned God into a beast that lacks feelings or thought and can dispose of its children like an animal in the wild.

In my life I have Known God to be very patient. That is why we are able to sin daily and still get away with it. But all that is because of his gracious love. We have all been given that grace period for us to see our foolishness and revert back to the path of true wisdom. We cannot blame God for our own mistakes.

The raging fire of the Judgment day is not meant for any of us but Satan and his angels. It is a pity that any of us should go there. But if we do head there, it simply because we choose to do so. Such is the freewill we have been granted. Here is God who says, " My child this path leads you to living waters, you only need to stick to the path and all will be well in the end, and this one leads you to tormenting thirst. After such a clear guidance do you still say you were not told and that your thirsting is because of God? Absolutely ridiculous. We align ourselves with Satan when we choose to follow the wrong path. God is your father when you choose to be his and follow his ways. You can however quickly decide to change your father by going against God. Satan thus becomes your most cherished and loved father. God's love pleads for your change of heart but without success. You have deep love for Satan's ways. Now if satan is your father (like father like son, don't forget)and he is heading towards the fires isn't only justified that you follow suit? How does God come in when you have already chosen your other loving father?

[Fraglante]

Originally Posted by poko-hunter

>Poko, I am sensing that you need some answers to your empty life, that there is something greater. I suggest that you humble yourself and >look deeper into the heart of God and the Holy Spirit in you to direct you into something greater.

Good day.

hey, i dont have an empty life. i'm simply airing out my thoughts and opinions. and this holy spirit you talk about have you ever seen it? nope! u are building your argument over a shaky foundation i.e FAITH. Keep your faith and dont let me take it away from you. i'm simply trying to find a solution to this complex equation called CHRISTIANITY.[/quote]

Your problem is that you are looking for your so called 'SOLUTIONS' in all the wrong places.You cannot get the answers you seek in a mashada forum.Have you not figured that out by now?

[murugaz]

i think you all who doubt the word need to look at your source of info. what makes you think that the so called researches are true? e.g the way you quote people who apparently go the way you want??

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by murugaz

i think you all who doubt the word need to look at your source of info. what makes you think that the so called researches are true? e.g the way you quote people who apparently go the way you want??

Murugaz,

I can ask you the exact same thing. What makes you who trust the word think that the word is true? You have absolutely no evidence to support your belief, it's all based on blind faith. I'll never support a researcher on blind faith, coz in scientific research people have to provide empirical evidence to support their claims. That's the fundamental difference between religion and science. Anybody can form a fake religion tomorrow and write down it's principles and dogmas and create a new god, and he would quickly gather staunch believers since no-one will be able to prove that his god does not exist. On the other hand, not anybody can just unleash a fake scientific theory because it will be tested and quickly proven to be a load of bull.

[Jibril Cessay]

First of all, Jesus is actually called 'Yeshuah' in Hebrew. Whoever did the the translation from Hebrew to Greek to Latin messed up.

Secondly what we know as the Bible today, is not holistic. The commentaries or the Mishnah, Yashi and Gemara are missing. Additional chapters of Esther and Daniel are not included as well. Where are the Midrashic teachings? Why does Christianity proclaim its veracity yet excludes important festivities such as Sabbath, Purim Shavuot and Passover? Isn't the Old testament part of the Bible?

Thirdly, I commend Benin for recognizing Voodoo. Roughly 60% of the Benin's 6.3 million people practice voodoo. They have a national Voodoo day that attracts millions of indigenous African religion practitioners. It's the first African country I can call truly 'African'. They have realized that our people have their own value system and moral minimum.

Fourly, the debate of Afrocentricity is compromised when you have Africans who believe that everything African is evil. As a result, indigenous folkways and institutions such as marriage, communalism and reverence for nature are swathed in Eurocentric idealism.

[Ndumbai]

Originally Posted by ATLian

Murugaz,

I can ask you the exact same thing. What makes you who trust the word think that the word is true? You have absolutely no evidence to support your belief, it's all based on blind faith. I'll never support a researcher on blind faith, coz in scientific research people have to provide empirical evidence to support their claims. That's the fundamental difference between religion and science. Anybody can form a fake religion tomorrow and write down it's principles and dogmas and create a new god, and he would quickly gather staunch believers since no-one will be able to prove that his god does not exist. On the other hand, not anybody can just unleash a fake scientific theory because it will be tested and quickly proven to be a load of bull.

Dude, you seem to be a fervent opposer.
evidence of bilical accuracy is most abundant in Africa, in the earliest civilised society and the only african country to have been a world superpower.
Egypt.

I need not tell you that egyptians were probably the first people to write.
i also nood not tell you that egypt opposed christianity and Yahweh and so could not have doctored their own records to favor christianity.

so.
Evidence one -Egypt
the story of joseph is as much a political and historical tale as it is a religious one, which means it was recorded by different people for different purposes, one of those being egyptian government-paid historians.
YOu know - egyptians were the first people to write.
i knowyou also know - Egypt is not exactly christian.
So we can count on their history to correct any herresies - but stra
It tells of Josephs ability above traditional fortune tellers,infact the best in all of North Africa.

Joseph proclaims his belief in Yahweh and is able to fortell and plan for a seven year drought, making egypt the world's richest nation at the time.
Pharaoh calls the best fortune tellers and wise men in all of ancient greater North Africa and Christanity is proven above African Traditional Beliefs.
this is in Egyptian historical records and unless you have asserted different, i prefer you argue with fact.

evidence 2 - egypt still 400 years after joseph
Moses outdoes real sorcerers and magicians at pharaoh's court and in egyptian records there is a time when in one night, all of egypt lost all of it's first borns, including the pharaoh's heir himself.

evidence 3 - archeology
All of science also tells of a time of a global flood according to archeological findings from th eearth's crust -telling of Noah's flood which by the way, was foretold.

evidence 4 - Palestina
Palestine holds history of a man that could capture a couple of hundred foxes with his hands, pluck of city gates nad kill 3,000 Troy-like soldiers with a bone he collected somewhere and bring down a whole colloseum with one push -someone called samson. Also foretold and self confessed servant of Yahweh.

think about it. if science or historians could not find proof of this, tunge pumzika Kweli?
So - if all this is recorded by Yahweh's opponents in their historical books - egypt, Palestine, Baylon (Iran) how comes you have surpassed this evidence inyour statement?

[Jibril Cessay]

Archaeologists are still exploring the floor of the Red Sea for evidence of a great exodus from Egypt to Israel.

[reggie_woic]

Originally Posted by Jibril Cessay

Archaeologists are still exploring the floor of the Red Sea for evidence of a great exodus from Egypt to Israel.

lol, are you serious?
what the hell are they looking for? thousand year old footprints?

[Kigan]

Atlian, read on.

Jibril, thanks.

lets dig further into the facts. I am sure we can get to 20 pieces of evidence outside the bible.

ATlian, want to take us head on with refuting any of these facts as they come?
mind you they are scientific, archeological, historical - any intellectual study in addition to but not exclusive to the bible.

let us deal with this once and for all.

in this specific forum and for your attention Atlian, i will show:

Evidence of the viability of the word
1.prophetic things that the bible specifically said would happen and have happened
2. historical events recorded in the bible and supported by intellectual study
3. statements by well reknowned scientists regarding the bible
4. evidence from other religions regarding the Bible (specifically, Islam)

watch this space.