[poko-hunter]

>Poko, I am sensing that you need some answers to your empty life, that there is something greater. I suggest that you humble yourself and >look deeper into the heart of God and the Holy Spirit in you to direct you into something greater.

Good day.[/quote]
hey, i dont have an empty life. i'm simply airing out my thoughts and opinions. and this holy spirit you talk about have you ever seen it? nope! u are building your argument over a shaky foundation i.e FAITH. Keep your faith and dont let me take it away from you. i'm simply trying to find a solution to this complex equation called CHRISTIANITY.

[mtoto mzuri]

poko, then how do you explain tha miracles that happen. miracles like those which men of God kama T.D.Jakes and akina Benny Hinn perfom, kama healing blind people, deaf people, people who cant speak start speaking e.t.c e.t.c how d u xplain dat

[youngben]

@Poko – you are an interesting chap and quite entertaining.

Christianity is not a fake, it’s mysterious.

Christians are the only “idiots” who say we are all Gods children and turn around and believe that only they will be favoured come judgement day.

I may be the only but I believe heaven and hell is here, we were put here for a purpose, we achieve that purpose and transcend to another form for another purpose. Manze that bull**** of we shall forever live being happy playing golf in a golden mansion is a story for kids, ati paradise.

Hebu think of what you love doing best, anything reading, eating, smoking, sex you name it. Then allocate 3 days and do only that. Manze that would mean heaven would be a boring place. Hakuna Heaven hakuna hell, theres an after life

We are all made in Gods image, meaning what am capable of, God is capable of.If you are a parent, or even a child you know very well no matter how bad you are, your parent will always love you, they might punish you, yes. But they will always love you.

The belief that God will send his beloved children to hell is so absurd, in that by that mere statement you have turned God into a beast that lacks feelings or thought and can dispose of its children like an animal in the wild.

And remember John 3:16 For God so loved the world………… this is reported by John, Jesus did not say this. If you pay attention JESUS SAID: PLEASE PRAY – OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN. Jesus himself did not say pray through me, that has evolved over the years. What John said could have overzealousness by a follower. Only those who believe will see the kingdom of God, in no way does that translate to “If you don’t believe in me you will not see the kingdom of God.

Can we get philosophers in here who can chambua the “language” first, then “context”, then meaning in the bible, brothas and Sistas have been clouded for years?

@kemi – Get your act together, some things cannot be tackled in depth in this forum, you can easily find out who wrote what book in the bible by googling, followed by those who edited it, how many times and in which year it was done. Stop displaying ignorance, I thought you were better than that. Once you establish that argue it out. – Fact is there has been only one witnessed spiritual writing in the bible that I can recall – mene mene tekel, on the wall during Daniels era, even the 10 commandments no one witnessed God writing, ni Moses alisema, so all other books, ni watu wameandika, watu kama mimi na wewe, accept that, it’s a fact.

Long post - poleni

[ATLian]

poko, then how do you explain tha miracles that happen. miracles like those which men of God kama T.D.Jakes and akina Benny Hinn perfom, kama healing blind people, deaf people, people who cant speak start speaking e.t.c e.t.c how d u xplain dat

@ Mtoto Mzuri,

there is something in science called "medically inexplicable" i.e. science can't explain the cure that just took place. There are times when a tumor will just die out, or a ravaging disease will just disappear. If that happens shortly after someone has prayed to be cured, I can see how they would thank god for the cure. But those cures also happen to those who don't pray, those who pray to other gods, etc...

Let me ask you a question: assume you were suddenly diagnosed with a major condition that required immediate treatment or you will definitely die. Assume that this condition was diagnosed when you are in your house which is both 100 meters away from a crusade being held by the top 10 preachers in the world, and 100 meters away from the best hospital that was currently hosting the top 10 surgeons who deal in curing what you've just been diagnosed with. Which 100 meters would you walk to, to the crusade so that TD Jakes can help cure you, or to the hospital so that those surgeons can operate on you?

More questions. When god's main guy on the earth, Pope John Paul, was shot by an assasin, where do you think he was rushed - to church so they could pray to god to remove the bullets and shut the bleeding arteries, or to the best hospital in Rome? Who do you think they called to cure him, the best bishops who had a straight line to god, or the best surgeons Rome could offer?

Even more questions - if akina TD Jakes are all that, why don't they ever walk into a major hospital where you have trained doctors and nurses and the latest space age medical equipment, and in front of all these people and equipment, perform their miracle cures? Why not? That makes perfect sense since most sick people are to be found in hospitals! Is it perhaps because they would be exposed as fakes in the blink of an eye, since the MRI's would prove instantly that the tumor is still there? In a crusade the sick man can tell the guy next to him that his tumor is gone coz he's so pumped up, only to discover later that the tumor is still there - while the guy he told his tumor was gone goes on believing that and preaching to others about it.

Final questions - why do these preachers cure things which are hard to prove e.g. curing deafness and dumbness. We have never seen a preacher cure a person with a prosthetic leg, and watched his old leg grow back. NEVER! Heck, even when praying, I've never heard of any Christian pray for a guy with no leg, asking god to grow the leg back. Why not? Of course that is something that god should be able to do quite easily. The people praying pray for god to give him courage to deal with his new legless-life, and to be able to adjust to walking around with those prosthetic legs. WTF?

Please realize that there are so many hoaxes who claim to cure people from diseases that it's not even funny. Millions of folk are conned of money and such by these preachers. There's a reason why they do the curing in the comforts of their crusades and never in an area where they can be easily scrutinized. Take a few seconds to google this out, especially Benny Hinn, and you might be surprised at what you come across.

[Telvin]

If Christianity was a science like you are approaching it, then you should do it it among physics, biology, chemistry and anything you regard to as science. I don't know why people who clearly are not Christians are so obsessed with Christianity. Why do you go puzzle over so ethnic religion in some remote village in Peru? My point is that Christianity, like every other religion falls under the laws and definition of religion.
Christians who go at great length to prove Christianity scientifically are to blame too. Religions are rooted in faith and that is why you can legitimately worship a tree and call it your religion without question.
My last point is the observation of the irony presented by a non-believer, yet pretending to understand Christianity. I believe it is ok. to ask in any religion but I am sure some here are not just wanting to understand, but merely undermining one man's religion. You present "facts" that really dont exist. If you look at many people, who hate Christianity, they look for extreme Christian and then extrapolate everything there. The truth is that Christianity, and even African indigenous religions are difficult to understand but they are just religions.
You may try to explain how the miracles works, which makes sense by the way, but this is undermined by the individual effects of these "miracles". If one asked a true to cure him of his cancer and then got cured by the tree, then a special relationship between the tree and the man will always remain. You and I as outsiders may doubt, deny, or even think it is stupid, but that has no relevance on the individual miracle. Bottom line is that religion is an individual thing based on experiences e.g. those miracles, or merely blind faith-no science needed here.

[patt]

personally i dont believe in those miracle healers like td jakes, reinhard bonke, benny hin {sp) and crew. they always heal unknown members of the public. it happened once some town in kenya when the popular "na masamaki walikuwa wengi lakini nyavu haikutoboka" pius muiru was about to run a crusade. he sent cripples like two months in advance. people knew the guy was up to something and the unknown cripples were bundled out of town and the crusade never materialised.

my belief is heaven and hell are all in this world. when one dies, the spirit lives on until you are born again. some things written in the bible are very questionable. God does not condone incest. it's funny that the billions of people living in this world all came out of adam and eve. despite all these....i choose to believe in God because the 10 commandments are a straight forward guide to living in this world and even legislation has adopted most of the 10 commandments anyway.

christianity could be a fake...but who cares. no one forces anyone to go to church. there is freedom of worship in most democratic countries. if christianity looks fake to you....embark on a serious journey of reviving what may be left of what your forefathers believed in. if kneeling facing mount kilimanjaro or worshipping the mugumo tree gives you spritual nourishment, go for it.

atleast with God, we know he's everywhere according to christianity teaching. you don't have to worry about getting the bearing right on the location of mt kilimanjaro or hunting for the nearest mugumo tree to your house.

[ATLian]

i choose to believe in God because the 10 commandments are a straight forward guide to living in this world and even legislation has adopted most of the 10 commandments anyway.

Patt,

the only commandments that are legislated are 2 - don't steal and don't kill. So what do you mean most have been adopted. If you covet your neighbors wife, nothing will happen to you legally. Ditto if you totally disrespect your folks.

[ABK kijana]

PHAROAH NEVER EXISTED THE JEWS WERE NEVER ENSLAVED!

Christians take this as Gospel but Egypt was the most well documented civilization of ancient times and guess wh@ NOBODY ever ever ever ever documented th@ BS.....cuz it never happened.
If that story, the origin of the Jewish tradition, was true there would be some independent coroberation. There is none....and no Christians the Hebrews are neither the Hyksos nor Hapiru(true historical Asiatics who invaded Kemet/Egypt).

Bottom line is religion is an aspect of CULTURE. Each african culture had its own spiritual system, most of which were destroyed by the mzungu.

Once Constantine decided that the Roman Empire should have only one religion and chose christianity he imposed it on conquored cultures and called them pagan. Europeans took their que from their Latin forebearers & there u have it.
maybe someone should tell the Africans celebrating Easter, a Roman holiday of the godess Ishtar, christianized after Constantines conversion. Its still tied to the spring equinox, in the spirit of Sun worship lol

Anyway there are sooooo many texts revealing the farce th@ is christian myth I would recoment 'The Dark Side of Christian History '. Oh yeah Dr. Yosef Ben-Jochannaans book 'The African Roots of Western Religions' shows how Africa, through Kemet/Egypt is the foundation for the revealed religions. \
When will it be revealed to Africans th@ we are degrading ourselves and our ancestors by denying our spiritual heritage. Without it we will continue to be 'lost in the wilderness' of Western/White ways!!

[ATLian]

I don't know why people who clearly are not Christians are so obsessed with Christianity. Why do you go puzzle over so ethnic religion in some remote village in Peru?

Telvin,

because Christianity affects our every day lives. I cannot buy a beer on Sunday in Georgia because of it's Christian based blue laws. A mature man with the means cannot approach another mature consenting woman and pay her money to have sex because of Christian laws. George Bush gave billions to Africa to fight AIDS, but not a single dollar from that can be used for the Number 1 means of preventing AIDS amongst the sexually active (condoms) because it goes against Bush's god's laws. Stem cell research that can save millions cannot go ahead because people believe it's against the Christian god's plans.

I hope you now understand why Christianity is such a big freaking deal for the non-Christians too.



My last point is the observation of the irony presented by a non-believer, yet pretending to understand Christianity.

Please expound what you mean by this.



You present "facts" that really dont exist.

Name one non-existent fact that I presented here.

[connexions]

Originally Posted by mtoto mzuri

poko, then how do you explain tha miracles that happen. miracles like those which men of God kama T.D.Jakes and akina Benny Hinn perfom, kama healing blind people, deaf people, people who cant speak start speaking e.t.c e.t.c how d u xplain dat

Sorry mate - if you believe in those fake "miracles", you will believe anything! Otherwise we would credit all those wonderful professional illusionists and magicians with divine powers!