[Wantai]

I did not even know such a church existed, please pardon my ignorance. I know there are other sabbath (Saturday) believers who are not necessarily Adventists. e.g Seventh-Day Baptists.

So who are these CSDA - creation 7th day and Adventist church? and what are they on about?

what's all this about prosecuting each other?

http://csdadventistchurch.us/images/CSDA_Church.gif

[edd]

Seventh day adventism is one of a group of denominations that was born from the millerite movement. Though I've never heard of CSDA but I am an SDA and I have heard of other sabbath keeping denom who do not subscribe to the prophecies/teachings of E.G White.

I'm guessing that could be one of the differences.

[Wantai]

I see.

[Qinael]

As a creation seventh day adventist myself, i am rather well informed regarding the differences between the two organizations. First, our main website is at www.csdachurch.org, and at www.csdadventistchurch.us/lawsuit you may find in depth information regarding what the "prosecuting" is about. To begin, we most certainly do subscribe to the writings of ellen white as inspired. That said, i am not sure what leads to the wording "prosecuting eachother", as we have not initiated any such process, yet the prosecution that is taking place is regarding a federal trademark on the name "seventh-day adventist" by the general conference corp. Of seventh-day adventists, the acting head of the sda denomination. The acquiring and enforcement of this is the reason that we have left the adventist denomination. As i said earlier, we subscribe to the teachings of mrs. White and other early adventists, and as a result, we agree with the statement that the name seventh-day adventist is "the name the lord has given us." further, adventist teaching has always been that "the "image to the beast" represents that form of apostate protestantism which will be developed when the protestant churches shall seek the aid of the civil power for the enforcement of their dogmas." [great controversy p. 445] when a church unites with the state and enforces her will with the sword of the state, she rejects christ as her husband and protector. (deut. 24:1-4) while this has traditionally been expected to take the form of a law enforcing sunday worship among adventists, the principles are what were taught to be eternal, not the specific fulfillment thereof. A church joining to the state to enforce it's doctrines by civil penalties forms an image, enforcing a mark of it's authority - in this case, it is a trade-mark of it's authority. Due to this, we have left the denomination, as it has, by the standard of scripture and it's own teachings, become a fallen body. Now, often we will be accused of not actually following the writings of ellen white due to this, because she did say after all, that "the church is not babylon." she even went so far as to denounce those who arose with such a message as deluded and sent of satan. She wrote this in 1893. In 1893 these words were very true; the adventist denomination had not formed nor enforced an image and mark with the u.s. Government. As god is no respecter of persons, nor organizations, we cannot with a clear conscience say that god rejected the jewish, catholic, and protestant churches for their union with caesar, but has unaccountably left denominational adventist unrebuked and unpunished for the same sin. We serve no such bias and two-faced god as this. While giving up the name seventh-day adventist would be "easier", and certainly more palatable to the flesh, we find that we cannot do this either, for it is still "the name the lord has given us." for a study of this matter from scripture and the writings of mrs. White, please see http://www.csdachurch.org/signet/signet_0107.pdf the article entitled "questions and answers on the ten virgins." while we have other doctrinal differences (we, with the early adventists, reject the doctrine of the trinity for example) we hold these as being insufficient to necessitate a leaving of the denomination; only when the church is fallen are the faithful to separate, and only when the church has joined to the state to persecute dissenters have they truly fallen. As was taught in the sabbath school quarterlies in 1896: first quarter sabbath school, lesson ix, february 29, 1896, p. 33: "when the early church departed from god and imbibed pagan errors, she became babylon. When she united with the state, she fell, and, as an organization, was the body of christ no longer. While the reformation churches held fast to the word, christ was with them. Then they crystallized their various errors into creeds and endeavored thus to confine god's word, they made themselves daughters of babylon. When some of them united with the state, they fell, and god had to use other people, called out of babylon to carry forward his work. Now among these very churches which came out of the second babylon, confusion reigns; and now great babylon, including later daughters, is in adulterous union with the kings of earth , and is endeavoring to make that union stronger. God calls no church babylon which holds to his word, and follows the light that shines from it, even though there are in its membership many who do not know christ when the controlling influence of a church is downward, it erects some other standard besides god's word." first quarter sabbath school, lesson x, march 7, 1896, pp. 35, 36: "it has ever been true that a backslidden body, one that has turned from god's word to men, from god's power to the state, was never reformed in itself. Invariably god's message has called out those from the fallen church who would do his will and preach his gospel. Israel went down to egypt for help, and their captivity and loss of power followed. Out of the captives god gathered a faithful band to do his work. The jewish church failed, and god called out the apostolic church to do his bidding. The roman church failed, and out of it god called the churches of the reformation. Some of these churches failed to advance, and god called out others to bear his gospel to the world such as the baptist, methodist, congregationalist, disciple, adventists. His last 'called-out' people will know no standard but his word, no power but his spirit." this is where we find ourselves in the prophetic timeline; "and i heard another voice from heaven, saying, come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (rev. 18:4)

[Qinael]

Why does my formatting keep being altered and ignored? Even capitalization is being inconsistently altered when I post.

[Wantai]

Originally Posted by edd

Seventh day adventism is one of a group of denominations that was born from the millerite movement. Though I've never heard of CSDA but I am an SDA and I have heard of other sabbath keeping denom who do not subscribe to the prophecies/teachings of E.G White.

I'm guessing that could be one of the differences.

Edd, thanks for your response. Quinael has just clarified that the CSDA actually believe in the teaching of E.G. White.

[Wantai]

Qinael, Thanks for all the info.

[pebbles-Nibbles]

Is there contention because of the term "creation" hence creationists or what? I would suppose that the proponents of creation believe in the literal seven day creation as shown in Genesis. I am just wondering.....

[Qinael]

Hello,

Yes, that is a part of the contention, e.g. theistic evolution vs. the literal 6 day creation recorded in the Scriptures.

Another more emphasized aspect of the name "Creation" is a belief in not only literal, but spiritual creation as opposed to evolution. This is a teaching that was taught in the early SDA denomination by E.G. White, A.T. Jones, and E.J. Waggoner primarily. It essentially states that the Christian does not "evolve" into the new birth, or go through "ups and downs", falling into known sins "once in awhile."

This constitutes a process in Adventist thinking - this constitutes evolution, whereas Christ has spoken "Be ye clean." The CSDA belief is that the Word of God creates what it speaks, such as "Let there be light" and there was light. Ergo, when He says "Go and sin no more" (e.g. 1 John 3:9, Jude 1:24) it enables us to do just that thing by His power - immediately.

This has become a point of contention with the SDA denomination which did add a 28th fundamental belief recently that, in wording, can be taken to mean similarly - in actual teaching and practice however, this doctrine is not only not accepted, but vehemently opposed.

To quote one example from a denominational source:

"Included in such discussions have been related theological concepts such as the nature of Christ, the nature of man, the nature of sin, perfection, and the question as to whether it is possible for a Christian to live a sinless life. In our judgment these...theological and Biblical issues need not be settled...We are requesting that we refrain from involving ourselves in public presentations of the...theology of righteousness by faith....We should all seek to diminish the flood of cassettes, brochures, books, and miscellaneous documents...This ended the discussion because the voice of the highest authority had spoken." Adventist Review, May 24, 1979, p 4-5.

Various others may be cited from other publications teaching that, essentially, Christians are bound to fall into sin eventually. This is not what "Creation" as Seventh-day Adventists have historically taught it includes, and this constitutes the major dividing point between the two, as it deals with the nature of the gospel itself.

[grip_daddy]

Qinael,

As per your last response, I seek to understand two things:

In absence of any evolutionary phenomena in creation, how does CSDA explain divergence of species as seen in different parts of the globe? A rather clear example is the physical differences in human races. We do know of a reality that African blacks differ from Western whites not only in colour but other physical body conformations, understandably caused by climatic differences adaptation over years.

Second, as you gave in the example of Jesus words, "go and sin no more", what aspect of human nature therefore would drag him to sin after receiving power from God to be the son of God? John wrote, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe in his name". John 1:12.

Peter was rebuked by Christ for falling into Satan's snare when he tried to prevent Jesus from facing the cross. Paul also rebuked him on the issue of circumcision, while Paul admitted that more often than not, he could find himself doing things he would not want to do (see Romans 7).

To my understanding, CSDA believes in the concept of ones saved always saved which tend to contradict the experiences of the named apostles, David the King, Abraham, Jacob, Thomas, Jonah, among other biblical figures that we know of.