[zerobato]

Before the arrival of the arabs and the europeans to african shores, didnt the african believe in god? the african has been told a lie about himself for a very long time until it is taken as plain truth. from the little history i have learnt, islam came with the slave drivers (arabs) while looking for slaves to work for the european. christianity came with the colonisers (europeans) who planted there own systems which are affecting the african upto today. the african mind has been cheated for a very long time because they still depend on foreign laws, religion and culture. islam has its origin in arab world (mecca) while christianity is well set in rome(catholic) and anglican(british).
until africans find there true religion and means of communicating to him, we shall remain enslaved mentally, economically, and culturally.

[zerobato]

and for those who say jesus will come back, where will he appear from?heaven? where is heaven? up in the sky? will the whole world see him at the same time in africa, europe,americas and asia? these regions have different time zones for if jc were to tokeza from australia at noon sharp, guyz in africa will still be a day behind and americans will still be asleep.
how will it be like for those who were born in places where jc's name had never been heard? ama he will come after all those places are chritianized? how long will it take to make the whole world christian?if the great british empire could not xtianize the whole world, will the americans do it(current superpower) or the chinese since they are a major race? what of places where man has never stepped into?will god just destroy coz of something bad that happened in NY or malaba?
there are so many questions that i would like to ask my xtian brothers and sisters about this life that we are living. as an african, i would like a religion which synchronizes with the reality on the ground. africans have been taken for granted for a very long time about there relationship with god. the church as we know it today was broughty by the colonial masters to conquer us.
WE NEED TO DE-COLONISE OUR MINDS!!

my ancestors arrived in the 'promised land' and it is a land full of all the riches in this world, that is AFRICA. yet time and again i have been that what i am seeing on earth will pass. pass to where? i am told that AFRICA IS THE POOREST CONTINENT? POOR YES SPIRITUALLY, BUT WE HAVE ALL THE GOLD, DIAMONDS, OIL, COBALT, URANIUM name it. all natural resources can be found in africa but we have been blinded to wait for riches in heaven where we will never step into(it doesnt exist coz i saw the pope being fed with pipes to keep him alive in this earth instead of just letting him die coz he was a holy man who would go straight to heaven). WE NEED TO EMANCIPIATE OURSELVES FROM THE MENTAL SLAVERY.

[Volina]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Krys]

the african mind has been
>cheated for a very long time because they still depend on
>foreign laws, religion and culture. ..
>until africans find there true religion and means of
>communicating to him, we shall remain enslaved mentally,
>economically, and culturally.

I will speak for Christianity. I wouldn't say it was 'imposed' on Africans. Those guys were just spreading the Word of God in obedience to scripture and Africans just happened to like what they heard. I'd compare it to the story in the Bible (if you are familiar with the Bible) of Elijah and the prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18). Those prophets sincerely thought baal was real but he just didn't show up to prove himself. God did show up and that's when they realised they were wrong. To me, that would be the same thing that happened to our forefathers. For a long time, they though they had this god until they experienced the God who could prove Himself in their everyday lives.

Where you happen to be in the journey is of no consequence, only what you do there.

[ATLian]

>I will speak for Christianity. I wouldn't say it was 'imposed'
>on Africans. Those guys were just spreading the Word of God in
>obedience to scripture and Africans just happened to like what
>they heard. I'd compare it to the story in the Bible (if you
>are familiar with the Bible) of Elijah and the prophets of
>Baal (1 Kings 18). Those prophets sincerely thought baal was
>real but he just didn't show up to prove himself. God did show
>up and that's when they realised they were wrong. To me, that
>would be the same thing that happened to our forefathers. For
>a long time, they though they had this god until they
>experienced the God who could prove Himself in their everyday
>lives.


Krys,

I TOTALLY disagree with you. The Africans had no choice, they had to drop all their "pagan" beliefs and practices and adopt Christianity, or face very major consequences e.g. starvation, imprisonment, murder, etc. What would make you think that an entire continent of black people who had been very happy with their lives, customs and gods would with open arms welcome a strange race and breed of people and embrace their god with open arms too? Come on man.

Please give me just one example (proven) of how any of our ancestors "experienced the God who could prove Himself in their everyday lives", just one tangible one.

Plus where was god for the last 7,000 years? Yaani he had to wait until white men could introduce our black ancestors to him? That's just ludicrous. Jesus lived a stone's throw from Africa, and we are the ones who get the message last? Pah-Lease!

I guarantee you that if we had been conquered by Indian Hindus, right now Kenyans would be 90% Hindu and we'd all be chanting how great Krishna and Vishnu are. It's not about our forefathers seeing the true god, it's about the jungus getting to us first with their version of the true god and totally brainwashing us mpaka we believed it.

To quote Kenyatta again, "When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible".

[milanya]

Krys, Christianity first began in Africa as something that was imposed by colonialists. Some may have chosen to embrace it, lakini...
Traditional Africans had their own religion and believed in God.

Christianity has failed to take strong root in Asia:
China 3%, Islam 1%
Japan 0.7 % Christian
South Korea at least has 26%

Why do you think that is? Dig up the thread we had. My theory is, every where else the religion came with force, and that's why a large population was converted and hence taught their kids. While countries like those above i listed didn't have that. Missionaries tried with Japan I tell you, read the book "Silence", a fabulous read.

Mark you, just because that's the way the religion began does not devalue it's core principles and teachings in my opinion.


Life's not a garden so don't be a hoe

[reggie_woic]

"Mark you, just because that's the way the religion began does not devalue it's core principles and teachings in my opinion."

Very well put, Milanya. as it turns out, in my opinion, we were forced into something good.

Its like forcing a child to take his medicine.
he may not want it,
he may not know that its good for him,
but it benefits him if he takes it.

when he grows up, he then takes (or not) the medicine of his choice.

the medicine is there for all. some don't see the sickness, hence ignore it. some do, and take the medicine.

kuna dawa

[teejay]

>Very well put, Milanya. as it turns out, in my opinion, we
>were forced into something good.
>
>Its like forcing a child to take his medicine.
>he may not want it,
>he may not know that its good for him,
>but it benefits him if he takes it.
>
>when he grows up, he then takes (or not) the medicine of his
>choice.
>
>the medicine is there for all. some don't see the sickness,
>hence ignore it. some do, and take the medicine.
>
>kuna dawa

Reggie, I think that what you are saying in your opinion is that Compulsion is very much part of religion and that the end justifies the means. At least that is what I am getting from what you have said above. If we were forced into doing something Good as you say then, where is all the love that was supposed to be part of that message of a loving God? God is supposed to be full of Mercy and Love, but when people claiming to be his messengers descend upon us with excessive force, demanding that we acknowledge Him, then we are only left to wonder how the same love can become compulsive. Indeed this reminds of an Incident in the Garden of Eden where Jesus healed the ear of wounded soldier who was in the midst of those people who had come to arrest him, the lesson here being that we must be compassionate, forgiving and loving even towards our enemies.

I believe that those who were sincere in spreading the message of God did so without use of arms, in fact they, the followers of Christ often encountered many problems in their cause of duty. The combination of religion and use of arms only came about when the white rulers saw that this was the best avenue they could use to achieve their selfish ends-grab lands. I must express my disgust. This was appalling and to greater extent this has over he ages weighed heavily on the church. The church is carrying political sins that were disguised to look like they originated from the church.

On this issue I think that more research needs to be done to establish the truth behind the spread of Christianity during the colonial era. Africans in the post colonial era have been known to have resented everything white, but them all Christianity has stood out as "Whitish Culture" that has refused to go away. African Americans went through alot of trouble in the hands of their white masters who worshiped that same God (that the muzungus had introduced to them). Why have they continue to worship that God without considering him the God of white people who "forces" to people know him?

Alot has been done to decolonize a black man's mind but Religion has remained glued in him. God has ever remained in his heart. And he has no need to abandon that God any sooner. I can only attribute this to one thing- God's might. That the word of God is spread not by man's efforts is, but Gods might is a reality that we see. This can only tell us that those who are stuck with Christianity are not doing so because they were forced to do but because they understand what Gos is all about.

Christianity is a matter of spiritual ideals and those cannot be imposed on a person. It is a personal choice that one has to make. Christianity is in perpetuation because the Spirit of God lives in those Africans who voluntarily accepted Christ, but in those whom the religion was imposed it ceased to be good cause for them and wallow in solitude because the neither know their God nor know the way forward.

[Songa Songa]

The quest for divinity is not confined to the 'major' religions visa ve Christianity or Islam. It has been a persuit for humans ever since they have had a conscience. Africans are not now devoid of such interests nor have they ever been without their explainations to the reasons to life. In my view it is not a question of compulsion but rather what idears get expression at a time and place. Every generation decides for themselves and as long as there are two people there be two differing opinions of the same.

There are two main reasons that keep ideas dominating our conscience. One, someone is holding our lives at risk if we deviate from that religion, or two, we are onto something that has not been proven wrong. Truth does not come with a tribal tag nor can it be confined to a time or place. All claims made by Jesus, Mohammed, Budda or my tribal chiefdom has to withstand the test of time and emerging human discoveries. Truth is universal and thus cannot be patented. Truth also transcends time. So what is Truth you ask?

If you find truth and ascribe it to an Arab, a European or an Afican you are confusing the messager from the message. If it is the persuit of truth as pertains to divinity you are after, the message existed before the means by which it was delivered to you. An African will always have an idea about God as an African, an Asian, a European or an Arab. The funny thing about it is, you cannot get two Africans to agree exactly on who God is. If you can think for yourself, no one should be able to impose anything on you. If you somewhat come to the same conclusion as someone else about any subject, that does not make you owners of the idea. Soon enough, others will come to the same idea, and before you know it, a religion will be formed.

No one idea stands the test of time for ever. No one answer answers all quesions. So what you have found tried and true as an African, you should hold on to. Trying to tell me that an Arab or a European had to say there is God, and there was, is a insult to my intelect as an African.

Songa Songa ... Mwafrica an yake pia!

[teejay]

"Indeed this reminds me of an Incident in the Garden of Eden where Jesus healed the ear...."

Rectifying the above error. I meant to say the Garden of Gethsemane and not Eden as previously indicated. My apologies to all for the mix up.