[kifaru samawati]

Why do so many atheists hang around the religion and spirituality forum? Or am I unaware that there are a bunch of believers hanging around atheist fourms to tell the atheists how wrong they are?

Is it because:
1. Atheism is like a religion now, so they are trying convert people to their beliefs.
2. Somehow they feel drawn to this place because they so desperately want to believe there is a God but they just don't know how.
3. Convincing someone else to be atheist makes them feel better, because by convincing others they are convincing themselves.

[jambazimkubwa]

Most of them are not atheists. They are either pretenders or believers who have backslid drastically.

[mumgy]

>Most of them are not atheists. They are either pretenders or
>believers who have backslid drastically.

Hehehe I couldn't have said it better!!!

[ATLian]

>Why do so many atheists hang around the religion and
>spirituality forum?

Kifaru-Samawati,

the purpose of this forum is to DISCUSS both religion and spirituality, REGARDLESS of whether or not you believe in any deity! So if you're a THEIST, then you can come and present your views regardless of which deity you worship. Similarly, if you're an ATHEIST, again you can come and present your views despite the fact that you don't believe in an deity. I hope you get that simple explanation.



>Or am I unaware that there are a bunch of
>believers hanging around atheist fourms to tell the atheists
>how wrong they are?

Believers have forever told other people how wrong they are, and how they need to change their religion to that of the believers. Millions have died and suffered and been enslaved because they didn't want to change their religion to that of the believers.



>1. Atheism is like a religion now, so they are trying convert
>people to their beliefs.

Atheism is NOT a religion.

[spider-ndwalz]

<Why do so many atheists hang around the religion and spirituality forum? Or am I unaware that there are a bunch of believers hanging around atheist fourms to tell the atheists how wrong they are?>


what is wrong with so many many atheists hanging around this forum? is it only for the believers( and i believe in the G of O of D by tha way...ama this is a secluded section only for the holier than thou..damn bro chill..

mark 10:45

' for even the son of man did not come to be served..but he came to seerve and give his life as a randsom for many'

at least thats what ma bible says..so please 'mr.holydude' give us a break..all of us seek a touch from heaven. Dont chase the people away.

[Americanized]

Atheism is a cry for help...What these guys are trying to tell us is:

1. They are tired of feeling guilty for all the bad things they do. Solution: No God, No guilt.

2. They are like little children getting back at God for not automatically, and miraculously, granting any of their wishes (as if God was Santa). They think they are punishing God by refusing to believe in Him.

3. They think they can get back at their parents and society by rebelling against the system. Think of it as teenage rebellion that just never went away.

4. They think holding an opinion so diametrically opposed to mainstream society makes them somehow "cooler" or "smarter"

[Death]

>Why do so many atheists hang around the religion and
>spirituality forum?

I believe that what the above common question and all its variants are really asking can be more completely captured by the following:

"Why do atheists bother spending so much time discussing religion if they don't believe in it? I don't believe in Santa Clause and as such, You will never see me discussing the finer aspects of the belief in Santa."

While the above may make sense at first glance, and seem like a question that leaves the atheist backed up into a corner,upon further analysis, it becomes evident that the 'Santa Clause' analogy is flawed, and as I'll show, it would in contrast to the above be absurd for any rational atheist NOT to discuss religion.

For starters, I'll show how the above analogy(Santa Clause) is flawed. I'll do that by making it closer to the atheist predicament.

1. Imagine you don't believe in Santa as is stated (I assume you won't need to imagine this...or at least I hope)

2. Now, Imagine that a very high percentage(90%+) of the people around you, believe in Santa. (starting to sound weird? we're not quite there yet). On top of that, they think you're 'strange' and weird simply because you don't believe in a fat man flying around the world dressed in red fur, jumping down chimneys and delivering gifts.

3. In addition to this, a good fraction of these Santa believers, which constitute an overwhelming majority of the masses, Demonize you simply because you DON'T believe in Santa Clause. That's right, as ridiculous as this sounds, they often make accusations implying that you have no basis for 'morality' nor do you have the inclination to do right, simply because.......you guessed it, you don't believe in Santa Clause.

4. But that's not where it ends, Apparently, Santa authored a book..that's right, the lovable fat guy in red fur authored a book. A book, which details rules on how every individual (whether or not you believe), should live their lives, some of which make no sense. What's worse, is that the fanatics that believe in Santa have written LAWS! based of some those ridiculous rules I mentioned above. That's right, your civil liberties are now being infringed by some book that Santa supposedly wrote. (now we're getting there)

5. Lastly, you are discriminated against, and lack any legal protection, simply because you don't believe in Santa (that's right, someone can refuse to hire you based of this disbelief)

Welcome to an atheists world.

The reality, is that even though we do not believe in any deity, and as a result are not members of any religion, religion affects our lives every single day. It affects our lives simply because the majority of religious people, seem to feel that there is no valid position other than theirs (as is seen from some of the ignorant posts directly above), to the extent of some of them not even recognizing such a position exists, and as such, have a tendency to force their beliefs upon the rest of society, often to the point of physical violence (see single largest cause of wars in this world).

The truth is, like the question stated at the start of this essay, I will have no reason to discuss religion like I have no reason discuss Santa, when and only when as is the case with Santa, People's irrational, fanatical belief in 'god' does not affect my life, and the lives of all those who 'god' forbid (pun intended) think differently.

And that my friend, I can assure you, is a day that I look forward to much more than you can possibly imagine!

[Americanized]

Whatever you believe is between you and your God, or non-God, as the case may be. I believe in God, but you don't. I don't expect to change your mind, and don't even imagine you will ever change my mind.

If you want us to tell
you how "intelligent", "enlightened", "progressive", and "cool" you are for determining the non-existence of God, we'll tell you what you want to hear. You are very intelligent, enlightened, progressive and cool!

Congratulations! You can do what you please without the burden of religiously imposed rules on morality! You have discovered the "guilt-free" secret of life!

[Death]

I rest my case

[Americanized]

>>Why do so many atheists hang around the religion and
>>spirituality forum?
>
>I believe that what the above common question and all its
>variants are really asking can be more completely captured by
>the following:
>
>"Why do atheists bother spending so much time discussing
>religion if they don't believe in it? I don't believe in Santa
>Clause and as such, You will never see me discussing the finer
>aspects of the belief in Santa."
--------------------------------------------------------------------

First of all, if you believe that Christians believe in Santa Claus, you are as gullible as the little kids this story is told to. Santa Claus is not a Chriatian idea. If you can show me anywhere in the Bible where Santa Claus is mentioned, I will convert to Atheism right now!

Santa Claus is simply a marketting gimmick meant to fleece consumers of their hard-earnd money every Christmas time. This is one of my biggest beef with the way Christians in America practice Christianity. I do not believe in lying to little kids about the existence of Santa and I do not intent to lie to my son.

So get this Santa chip off your shoulder. If you believe Santa is in the Bible, then you are absolutely clueless about Christianity, you have no business criticizing what you do not understand, and your whole justification for atheism is founded on ignorance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>While the above may make sense at first glance, and seem like
>a question that leaves the atheist backed up into a
>corner,upon further analysis, it becomes evident that the
>'Santa Clause' analogy is flawed, and as I'll show, it would
>in contrast to the above be absurd for any rational atheist
>NOT to discuss religion.
>
>For starters, I'll show how the above analogy(Santa Clause) is
>flawed. I'll do that by making it closer to the atheist
>predicament.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------

By basing your whole argument on the existence of Santa, you have already made a childish blunder. You might as well start talking about UFOs right now, coz your argument is flawed from the beginning!

---------------------------------------------------------------------
>1. Imagine you don't believe in Santa as is stated (I assume
>you won't need to imagine this...or at least I hope)
>
>2. Now, Imagine that a very high percentage(90%+) of the
>people around you, believe in Santa. (starting to sound weird?
>we're not quite there yet). On top of that, they think you're
>'strange' and weird simply because you don't believe in a fat
>man flying around the world dressed in red fur, jumping down
>chimneys and delivering gifts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Comparing God to Santa is absurdly simplistic! You are comparing apples to oranges! First of all, that 90 percent figure is idiotic! Everyone knows Santa Claus is not real, except the little kids who are lied to in the (stupid) American idea of Christmas tradition! If you believe 90 percent of Christians believe in Santa, you are sadly mistaken and you are basing your argument imagined absurdities!
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>3. In addition to this, a good fraction of these Santa
>believers, which constitute an overwhelming majority of the
>masses, Demonize you simply because you DON'T believe in Santa
>Clause. That's right, as ridiculous as this sounds, they often
>make accusations implying that you have no basis for
>'morality' nor do you have the inclination to do right, simply
>because.......you guessed it, you don't believe in Santa
>Clause.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Fist of all, no one is forced to believe in Santa. Second of all, this idiotic idea you have about being "demonized" needs to go. If you live in America, we have the freedom to worship (or not worship) whatever you want. For God's sake, they just allowed a woman to put a Wiccan symbol on her son's headstone at the Arlington military cemetery because they practice witchcraft! You need to get rid of this persecution (conspiracy) complex! Maybe it makes you feel special when you feel you are being persecuted.

Christianity, and all other major world religions have moral laws governing interaction between people. As far as I know, there is no such thing with atheists. Why don't you tell us what atheists believe in as far as morality is concerned? Do you even know, or are you just in here blowing off steam?

Law provides a moral compass so you know how to behave and know when you have done wrong, so you can correct it. If you don't have any moral laws and rules, what is to stop you from doing whatever you feel like, regardless of who you hurt?

------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>4. But that's not where it ends, Apparently, Santa authored a
>book..that's right, the lovable fat guy in red fur authored a
>book. A book, which details rules on how every individual
>(whether or not you believe), should live their lives, some of
>which make no sense. What's worse, is that the fanatics that
>believe in Santa have written LAWS! based of some those
>ridiculous rules I mentioned above. That's right, your civil
>liberties are now being infringed by some book that Santa
>supposedly wrote. (now we're getting there)

--------------------------------------------------------------------

There you go again with that persecution complex. You have absolutely no clue what Christianity is about, yet you criticize it. You need to go by what is actually in the Bible, and not what sinful human beings do. Jesus said to do unto others as we would want done to us. He told us not to be judgmental on others who are not like us. "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone". He dined with Zacharia the despised tax collector, defying everyone who said tax collectors are evil and should be shunned. He healed the lepers and brought them back into the fold after they were treated as outcasts by society. The Good Samaritan helped the injured Jew even though Samaritans were despised by Jews. Jesus said to "give unto God what belongs to God, and render unto Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar", which clearly states the separation of Church and state. Go read the bible first before you come up in here making stupid assumptions and making a fool of yourself!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>5. Lastly, you are discriminated against, and lack any legal
>protection, simply because you don't believe in Santa (that's
>right, someone can refuse to hire you based of this
>disbelief)
>
>Welcome to an atheists world.
>
>The reality, is that even though we do not believe in any
>deity, and as a result are not members of any religion,
>religion affects our lives every single day. It affects our
>lives simply because the majority of religious people, seem to
>feel that there is no valid position other than theirs (as is
>seen from some of the ignorant posts directly above), to the
>extent of some of them not even recognizing such a position
>exists, and as such, have a tendency to force their beliefs
>upon the rest of society, often to the point of physical
>violence (see single largest cause of wars in this world).
>
>The truth is, like the question stated at the start of this
>essay, I will have no reason to discuss religion like I have
>no reason discuss Santa, when and only when as is the case
>with Santa, People's irrational, fanatical belief in 'god'
>does not affect my life, and the lives of all those who 'god'
>forbid (pun intended) think differently.
>
>And that my friend, I can assure you, is a day that I look
>forward to much more than you can possibly imagine!
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
As I told you before, I don't care what you believe in. I think you are wrong, but you have every right to think whatever you believe in. But don't you think your whole reason for coming up in this forum was to force your atheistic beliefs on us?

While you are at it, give me the atheistic belief about how the universe was created. Before you jump in here with the Big Bang Theory, try to explain where the raw materials of the Big Bang came from.

I am interested to hear your opinion.
>