[safina]

@ Americanized

>Atheism is a cry for help...What these guys are trying to tell us is:

>1. They are tired of feeling guilty for all the bad things they do. Solution: No God, No guilt.

>2. They are like little children getting back at God for not automatically, and miraculously, granting any of their wishes (as if God was Santa). They think they are punishing God by refusing to >believe in Him.

>3. They think they can get back at their parents and society by rebelling against the system. Think of it as teenage rebellion that just never went away.

>
>4. They think holding an opinion so diametrically opposed to mainstream society makes them somehow "cooler" or "smarter"


I really don't know where to begin but I really sympathizze with ya point of view.Ma broda,faith is not a virtue,thats what I call one of the christian invention.faith is what you walk with until you get the facts right.A scientist only has faith in his hypothesis long enough to test it.He/atheist/scientist would rather know if its true or false than have faith in it.If you believe in some literal monkey religion all your life,what if you are wrong?Faith is an excuse for not knowing.This bible stuff is like a car,You don't need to know how your car works to drive it,it gets you to ya destination if you know how to operate it.Irregardles how it works,the end result is the same.But it takes faith to operate your car.The MORE YOU KNOW about your car,the more you know that something is really fvcked up.Once again i will say religion in nothing but bakruptcy of intelligence.
I know You might hate atheists ,but this folks are moral and good folks.

[KEMINOKANA]

Anyone who thinks Death's analogy was good seriously needs www.m-w.com and search "analogy" pronto!

Americanized hit the nail on the head. You cant compare Santa Clausism with christianity as analogies. That's very retarded. Furthermore, you can not, in framing an argument, have the right to frame a subject as whatever you want and at the same time try to factually discredit/criticize the same subject.

I've said it in here before, I could as well call science santa clausism. We had this argument in here before. Everything that we call facts, can be nonsense to another person, if that person chooses to disregard that fact. Science does not explain where the earth originated from, and just like atheists have chosen not to believe in God, christians have chosen not to believe in scientific theories. None can prove the earth and humans' genesis.

It takes intelligence to respect people's opinions. Idiots spend their time throwing stones, thinking that they own the truth. It is a case of poteto or potato, tometo or tomato. Take ur pick and stop being fools.

But the poster is right, it makes zero sense to dwell on disapproving something you dont believe in. Death argues discrimination..total hogwash. There have been posts about racial and sexual discrimination, which unlike religion that cant be discovered unless divulged is obvious to the prejudists but we never heard Death or Atlian comment. Get off the contradictory box guys. :D

[chotadipo]

Kemi ameanza mwaka mpya na ukali!

I think what death was trying to imply using the santa claus analogy was that belief is inherently irrational. The goodness about belief is that it has no limits.

[Zouk La]

Boy are you in for a rude awakening. You, like your fellow atheists (and your not so distant cousins, the antagonists), have chosen to live a Godless life, denying the very essence that makes you who you are... i.e., you are also denying that there's a spiritual side to our being. (Tell me if I'm wrong.) I have studied the concept an atheist/antagonist mindsets and it's philosophical workings, and found it severely flawed.

I shall stop there, and make you and offer for a nice, intellectual debate on this matter. You may choose the venue if you will, even if it's right here in Mashada. Let me know, and we can continue this further.

-Zouk

PS- I'm not offering this to try and impress anyone, but to simply try and shed some light on the truth. I'll farely consider all your thoughts, and question those that are questionable. Hope we keep this as civilized as possible. Thanks.

[KEMINOKANA]

>Kemi ameanza mwaka mpya na ukali!
>
>I think what death was trying to imply using the santa claus
>analogy was that belief is inherently irrational.

Well belief! Even atheists are believers...i.e in science or whatever they use to discredit religion. And as I said, whatever that is, it doesnt monopolize the truth and therefore can be discredited too. It makes no sense to use a discreditable theory to discredit another. And as I argued before, "discredit" here is subjective in that one can choose to disregard one tenet or not. For example, when scientists talk of dragons, nobody saw dragons, but we believe they existed.

The goodness
>about belief is that it has no limits.

Yep. That's why atheists would believe dragons existed but not Jesus Christ. Asked why, they say they never saw JC, as though they saw dragons. Asked why they believe dragons existed, they point to 'evidence', which is provided by smart men i.e scientists. Shown evidence of JC's existence, they say nope! some smart man 'created' his existence using already existing information. LOL...as though the dragons wouldnt have been 'created' using already existing information.

The end to this cycle of hypocrisy is simply acknowledging that opinions differ. I see so many prominent, Ivy league guys who are religious while some regular mashadites are building castles of fantasy they they are smart coz they dont believe in religion. If atheists were as smart as they'd want us to believe, we could be seeing alot of them in prominent positions, making miraculous discoveries, but alas!

[ATLian]

>You cant compare Santa
>Clausism with christianity as analogies.

Why not? You can use ANY TWO entities in an analogy as long as you clearly explain the link between the two.



>Furthermore, you can not, in framing an argument, have the
>right to frame a subject as whatever you want and at the same
>time try to factually discredit/criticize the same subject.

Please expound on what you mean above, you totally lost me.



>Everything that we call facts, can be nonsense to another
>person, if that person chooses to disregard that fact.

You are 100% WRONG with your above statement. A FACT CANNOT be disproved or disregarded by a rational sane person, while an opinion can. e.g. It's a FACT that Canada borders the US to the North. There is no way you can disprove or disregard that. You can test it by yourself by going to the northern US border. Every map proves it. Everybody who has been to Canada proves it. Tell me how someone can disregard that? Have you ever seen anybody dispute that it's the sun that gives us light and heat? Of course not. So tell me Kemi, how can those fact be "nonsense" to another person unless those people are intellectually chanllenged? Opinions on the other hand can be nonsense to another person. I can state that in my opinion, Canada is the biggest threat to US peace, not Iran or whatever.

God BTW is an opinion, not a fact, which is why you have so many different views and beliefs on him.



>Science
>does not explain where the earth originated from

Wrong again. Science DOES explain where the earth originated from. It's YOU who doesn't believe in science's explanation.



>and just
>like atheists have chosen not to believe in God, christians
>have chosen not to believe in scientific theories.

Which Christians are these who don't believe in science's theories? Do you realize that everything you use was created by a scientific theory? EVERYTHING!!!!! The car you drive, the TV you watch, the electricity you use, the roads you drive on, etc. How can you then say you don't believe in scientific theory?????



>It takes intelligence to respect people's opinions.

Again I disagree. Not every opinion merits respect. Some opinions are straight out retarded. How much respect would you accord those jungus in the Aryan Nation in Idaho who's opinions hold that all miros should either be dead ama enslaved to serve white people? I think your statement should read "it takes intelligence to know which opinions to respect."

[Zouk La]

Death, Atlan, and other atheists/antagonists,

IT's too obvious Americanized couldn't possibly have authored that post he posted (considering all his previous posts, mired with idiocity and vulgarity that always makes us wanna whoop his ass). And yes, neither do I waste time with his arguements. However, the original author of this post does really point out some valid points for, an atheist, to consider. If you seek truth, you should atleast take a moment and read what was written by the original author Americanized borrowed from. And while you read, try to avoid thinking of Americanized, as this may cause you to read it with a biased mindset.

-Zouk.

PS- I wonder if Americanized could even spell the word analogy before he read it. hehehehehe! Just kidding, americanized... as much as you make us wanna whoop your butt, you're still cool :-D.

[ATLian]

>But the poster is right, it makes zero sense to dwell on
>disapproving something you dont believe in.

Let me break down Americanized's analogy coz it seems that some peeps just aren't getting it. That way you might finally understand why it does make sense to dwell on something you do not believe in.

Right now you do not believe in Santa Claus. Ironically it's for the exact same reasons I do not believe in god - there is not an iota of evidence to prove his existence. Of course in your world, you disproving in Santa coz there is no evidence makes all the sense in the world, but me disproving god coz there's no evidence absolutely makes no sense. But I digress. Back to Santa - you also couldn't care less for Santa coz his existence doesn't affect your life in any way.

Now imagine if the government suddenly started believing in Santa. Suddenly they have June 10th and November 19th as holidays to mark his birth and death. Imagine if they had special taxes. Imagine if they said that Kisiis couldn't marry because Santa thinks that Kisiis marrying is evil. etc. Then suddenly it would be a big deal to you. You would discuss it seriously even if you don't believe in it.

Right now you're Christian, and so is the government. That's the NUMBER ONE reason you agree on many of the government laws which exist ONLY BECAUSE of Christianity e.g. prostitution. Why can't a grown person pay another grown person for sexual services? I can pay you to wipe the crap off my ass after I take a dump, or to do any of a thousand filthy jobs that put your life at extreme risk, etc, but I cannot pay you to have consentual sex with me! WTF? Ama like the whole gay marriage issue. Why can't two adult men who love each other get married and spend the rest of their lives in marital bliss? Why can't I buy a beer in Georgia on Sundays?

Of course it goes back to religion - because god is against it! Period! I guarantee you, if we lived life through laws imposed by the gova based on the laws of Santa, you'd be protesting daily. We'd be here on this Mashada thread with someone asking "why are all the non-Santas are always posting on a Santa forum" and you'd be writing back exactly what Death wrote. That's why Non-believers discuss religion - BECAUSE like it or not it is shoved down our faces by the government and the masses.

It's a part of our lives!I hope now you get what Death meant!

[KEMINOKANA]

All that is balderdash. You are not obliged to believe in christianity and therefore its teachings affect you not. If someone was forcing Atlian to be christian, associate with christians, recognize christianity and etc, then it would make sense for Atlian to dwell on the fallacy of christianity.

So far that's not the case. You can choose to go to work on christmas or saturday. Marry a christian or not. Associate with christians or not and etc.

So what is ur problem? The moral laws are not necessarily christian. You dont need to be christian to be moral. Where in the constitution is it written that prostitution is illegal because the bible says so? You can be against abortion and not be christian. Against homosexuality and not be a christian. So a govt enacting moral laws doesnt necessarily mean its for and by christians. That much we all know so stop hiding behind this cloak.

You've said religion is for idiots, leave the idiots alone...much like believers in religion have left u alone!! :)

[KEMINOKANA]

>God BTW is an opinion, not a fact, which is why you have so
>many different views and beliefs on him.

Much like evolution.

>>Science
>>does not explain where the earth originated from
>
>Wrong again. Science DOES explain where the earth originated
>from. It's YOU who doesn't believe in science's explanation.

Much like the bible explains creation but YOU dont believe in its explanation.

>>and just
>>like atheists have chosen not to believe in God, christians
>>have chosen not to believe in scientific theories.
>
>Which Christians are these who don't believe in science's
>theories? Do you realize that everything you use was created
>by a scientific theory? EVERYTHING!!!!! The car you drive, the
>TV you watch, the electricity you use, the roads you drive on,
>etc. How can you then say you don't believe in scientific
>theory?????

I meant scientific theories on creation and etc. BTW, alot of scientific discoveries were/are made by religious people.

>>It takes intelligence to respect people's opinions.
>
>Again I disagree. Not every opinion merits respect. Some
>opinions are straight out retarded. How much respect would you
>accord those jungus in the Aryan Nation in Idaho who's
>opinions hold that all miros should either be dead ama
>enslaved to serve white people? I think your statement should
>read "it takes intelligence to know which opinions to
>respect."

If you are straight out retarded, you may be too retarded to realize that someone's opinion, no matter how extreme the opinion is, is the person's opinion.