[teejay]

>Mass in that equation has to be mass of something. I now
>agree that they created the matter but that is because they
>don't define the particles they are using as matter. My whole
>point is that you gotta start with something. Any of the
>experiment I read involve manipulating particles.

Points, you have said it well. If you will allow me to, now let me add something to your point above

Any of the experiment I read involve manipulating particles by someone for the results to occur(in other words experiment), which means it is impossible for evolution to have even taken root let alone begin. Someone must have designed us intelligently. That Someone is the uncaused cause. He is God- the Begining and the End.

Now the evolutinists in here are not trying to tell us that nature experimented on its own. If that is so then science will be contradicting itself by,on one hand believing in conducted proven analysis of outcomes, and on the other hand denying the very same logic by saying that things just happened on their own!

[safina]

>>Mass in that equation has to be mass of something.

This clearly tells me that you have no clue of what I talked about.

I now
>>agree that they created the matter but that is because they
>>don't define the particles they are using as matter. My
>whole
>>point is that you gotta start with something. Any of the
>>experiment I read involve manipulating particles.

Who said you have to manipulate particles?You must be outside ya mind. You are really stuck to whatever your HIGH SCHOOL teacher told you.let me try and explain again.Light beams colliding with each other can goad empty vaccum into creating something out of NOTHING(get that right).This was a prediction made by Dr Gregory Breit and Dr. John Wheeler in 1934.Many Thomases doubted this,thats why they had to do it in a lab.


>
>Any of the experiment I read involve manipulating particles by
>someone for the results to occur(in other words experiment),
>which means it is impossible for evolution to have even taken
>root let alone begin. Someone must have designed us
>intelligently. That Someone is the uncaused cause. He is God-
>the Begining and the End.

Ma brother religion and all tha God sh1t is nothing but bunkraptcy of intelligence.You are the kind of folks who shoot yourselves in the foot and blame it on the devil.

>
>Now the evolutinists in here are not trying to tell us that
>nature experimented on its own. If that is so then science
>will be contradicting itself by,on one hand believing in
>conducted proven analysis of outcomes, and on the other hand
>denying the very same logic by saying that things just
>happened on their own!

It makes no point to argue with folks who have know knowledge of physics,let alone particle physics.But at least we tried,so tell us something about how God came out of nothing,tell us the wonders he did that can't be done by scientists today.

[Points]

You guys do really think I am an idiot. Instead of just posting stuff and saying how complicated it is, why do you post or even link to one of those reasearches you are reading from? You know we are on the same page but you refuse to admit. Where did light come from? because that equation is using speed of light. Even these experiments used light to create matter. Now, if you answer this question, then we are back to stars and creating the universe. THis is a circle refer to my very first post. I have been consistent as ever.
I laugh when I see how hard you suppor the theory. This is what I have been trying to hammer into you. The reason we are arguing here is exactly why the big bang is a theory and not fact law or whatever. For the 10th time this theory is derived from some facts and you guys have pointed them out and that is it. This does not PROVE the theory. I will tell you again that I work in the scientific field and this is something that is avoided. Please explain to me why it is a theory if you disagree. I think you guys just don't want to admit. It is the best theory of those out there and the most known and that is about it.
I told you before that I do science (biological). I ignore the greater evolution and big bangs. This does not affect my work at all. You know if I should not be doing science because I believe in creation (whisper) I think I am VERY lucky because I am doing well in school and almost ready to be released to the world.
I pity you. You are emotional in your argument. You sound angry. You seem mad that I believe what I do. I am not mad at you for believing what you do.

[safina]

Your argument's base premise is "because things are complicated they must have a designer".You provide no evidence of this designer,and no explanation for why things aren't BETTER.Do your best to ignore logic.

What percent(%) of genes mathc yours?
Chimps--98%
Mouse---92%
Fruitfly--44%
yeast ---26%
Weed------18%

all I am trying to tell you is,the similarities reflect a common ancestry that appears to be shared by all life on earth.

[ATLian]

>Where did light come from? because that equation is
>using speed of light.

We're back to the paper boat vs. aircraft carrier analogy. You cannot challenge the source of the paper boat while totally ignoring the source of the aircraft carrier. If you can believe that there's something that came from nowhere (god), then you are admitting that it's possible for some things not to have a creator.



>For the 10th time this theory is derived
>from some facts and you guys have pointed them out and that is
>it. This does not PROVE the theory.

At least for the first time you have admitted that evolution is based on FACTS unlike creation, which is 100%, based on blind faith. Since even you admit that the facts behind the theory of evolution are legitimate facts, and since you're also a self-proclaimed biologist, what logical conclusion do you draw from those facts?

[ATLian]

>I pity you. You are emotional in your argument. You sound
>angry. You seem mad that I believe what I do. I am not mad at
>you for believing what you do.

Points,

you pity somebody for taking an intelligent approach at looking at scientific evidence and theories? Wow. Let me show you how absurd that sounds. Jesus said in the Bible that diseases are caused by demons. Now assume that a John Doe has a blocked heart and he will die unless he gets immediate help. Do you also pity him when he goes to get surgery from competent educated cardiologist surgeons in space-age hospital theatres built by proven scientific theories, instead of going to church to ask the priest to help exorcise the demon that is clogging up his arteries? That just totally amazes me how someone, kwanza someone who is educated, can think like this.

Do you know that the Bible says and insinuates in very many verses that the earth is flat? That's because the men who wrote the Bible had no idea then that the world was round. That's why the early church believed in a flat earth. Of course when Galileo and other scientists introduced empirical evidence to prove that the earth was indeed round, they were condemned and persecuted. Finally when there was irrefutable proof of the earth's roundness - like color photos and videos taken from space - the church finally accepted it was round. The Catholic Church, through the pope, finally officially changed church doctrine to accept that the earth is indeed round in 1992, and the pope officially forgave Galileo for the sufferings the church put him through.

In other words, a staunch Catholic HAD TO believe that the world was flat until 1992. That's because his Bible and his church said so. Any other belief would be tantamount to blasphemy. Until 1992 Catholic priests could state in a sermon that the church is round, and the faithfuls in the audience couldn't disagree because they'd be going against the Bible. Can you believe that crap? Do you understand how an intelligent educated man can chose to let his religion blind him so much? I honestly cannot understand that. There's still a Christian group called the Flat Earth Society that claims the earth is flat ONLY BECAUSE the Bible says so. According to them the Bible is inerrant, and the word of god never changes, so the earth has to be flat.

Do you see the danger of blind belief? You totally suspend intelligence so you can tow your religion's line. The sad thing is you pity the guy who thinks the world is round, when it's you who needs to be pitied because of the way you have let religion totally blind you to facts. You are a biologist who will look into the microscope and see the malaria causing parasite, then claim that it doesn't exist since Jesus said it's demons that cause malaria and other diseases. I REALLY pity people who are that blinded by faith. Hopefully one day soon the pope will admit that yes, evolution does exist, and the church will forgive Darwin...