[u_aint_a_hustler]

Let us look at the following Verses in the Bible: "If a man takes a wife and, after laying with her, dislikes her and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, 'I married this woman but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,' then the girl's father and mother shall bring proof [how do you think they would do that?] that she was a virgin to the town elders at the gate. The girl's father will say to the elders, 'I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. Now he has slandered her and said, 'I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.' But here is the proof of my daughter's virginity.' Then her parents shall display the cloth [the father would literally stick his two fingers covered with a piece of cloth into his daughter's vagina before she gets married and keep that bloody cloth for as long as his daughter is married] with before the elders of the town, and the elders shall take the man and punish him. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:13-18)"

Here is a more clear translation from Hebrew Resources: "The girl's father and mother shall produce the evidence of the girl's virginity before the elders of the town at the gate. And the girl's father shall say to the elders, "I gave this man my daughter to wife, but he had taken an aversion to her; so he has made up charges, saying, 'I did not find your daughter a virgin.' But here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity!" And they shall spread out the cloth before the elders of the town. (From the New JPS translation, Deuteronomy 22:15-17)"


Why would fathers do that?

Back in the old Biblical days, if a girl commits fornication, she would bring a big shame to the family. The family would lose their reputation and respect in the town. That is why you see Biblical verses such as the following

"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus 21:9)"

"...and the birth of ANY daughter is a loss. (From the New Jerusalem Bible, Ecclesiasticus 22:3)"

"Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a MALE child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THIRTY THREE days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled. But if she bear a FEMALE child, then she shall be unclean TWO WEEKS, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying SIXTY SIX days. (From the NIV Bible, Leviticus 12:2-5)"

The entire Bible is corrupted anyway according to its Theologians!

The Bible itself admits that it has been tampered with and corrupted by man's alterations and corruptions:

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"


Numbers 31:7, 17-18 further prove that fingers were inserted into virgin girls!

Numbers 31:7, 17-18 "They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.......Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

[reggie_woic]

perv

[milanya]

I don't see anything about sticking the fingers in vaginas...

In so many traditional cultures (even non-Christian), the blood-stained sheet was supposed to be produced as proof of virginity.

Man, even in Islam there is the notion of women being a greater source of uncleanliness.

Well, that was the OT, and when Jesus came, alisema sote ni wana wa Mungu, wachafu na wasafi.

[Zelda]

:)
mashada seems to have turned into a haven for iconoclasts siku hizi. is it something in the air?

@ u_aint_a_hustler: heheh! "nice" try. yaani you even unearthed a copy of the tanakh (jps) to make your point. if you've actually read that book from cover to cover, i've got to hand it to you.
but why lie about the fingers? seems like you're taking poetic license in altering god's word yourself.

take your head out of the book for a moment and come back to reality: the practice of proving kwamba women were virgins (by displaying the blood-stained cloth to the townspeople) was a common enough practice all over africa and the middle east until very recently. today, not so much, but it is still practised among some communities. the ppl who do the "checking" are mature women, often the mothers-in-law, community mid-wives or those who perform procedures like clitoridectomy.

i'm not thrilled about the practices. there's a double standard when it comes to sex[uality] in the monotheistic traditions.
obviously, the tanakh was written by men.

historical context matters: the scriptures describe a time when theocracy was a reality. the state had to be governed by god's law, therefore every single human action had to be accounted for within this law. that obviously gives rise to problems when we read these scriptures today. we're approaching them as citizens of secular states. religion and governance inhabit separate spheres, so laws govering sexuality are enacted, not as religious laws, but as state laws or as federal laws.

i have problems with sections of the biblical text. but i'm not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. other sections of the scriptures are inspiring and display immense insight and wisdom. if you go through life absolutely rejecting everything that proves to have an error or a fault, then there'll be nothing left to appreciate.

[teejay]

Hustler

I told you this before and am telling you this again. You are new here and I can understand your enthusiasm and vigour in trying to "spread" Islam, but you will soon calm down, by the power of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is people like you who continue to perpetuate the already bad image of Islam. I gather the discrepancies in the bible is the religious propaganda that helps the growth of Islam. I have never known Islam to preach its course other than maligne other religions. Islam's case is equivalent to that of a man who is attracted to a woman, who is already under the seductive spell of another man,and instead of letting the woman see for herself his Beauty, he maligns the other man's name to get the audience of the woman. This is precisely what you, hustler is doing here.