[tertius]

It was an atheist who was talking about the pope and Stephen Hawking...

And please leave religious theory on prophecy for an adequate forum.

[tertius]

>Kenyan women are either afraid
>or will not be comfortable with employing reason and questions
>as our guide when searching this conflicting matters. They
>would rather turn to faith.

You are a man, you are a bit more logical than most females, they are a bit more emotional than you, once you start attacking them on their beliefs they will go where they feel safe, and that's not with you.

>Most Christians would rather turn
>to the Bible for answers on issues such as creation, and see
>no need for science and reason.

You have two points here that are conflicting. I turn to the Bible when it comes to creation. Why? Because I'm a christian and I cannot deny the Bible, otherwise i would not be a christian. So there is really nothing you can do about that.

Secondly, "And see no need for science and reason"

I don't know where you get this from, please leave your cliches at the door. If you think christians do not employ reason and have no need for science, then you mistake us for I don't even know what.

I'm a christian, I love reading about evolution, reasoning with people about creation etc. And I'm not even that great, I know a whole bunch of christians who can argue according to what they believe, and are told to do so in the bible.

>But even if Christians were to
>trust all of the ancient words of the Bible, how could they
>know what they mean without using science and reason?

That doesn't make sense.

>If
>Christians rely on a translation, don't they need to know it
>is accurate?

Some do, others don't see the need because they have a personal relationship with the Creator. There needs to be accountibility, and that's why we have churches, to keep each other on the right road. Deception is easy to come by. That's why you need brothers and sisters to help you to stay close to God.

I personally, love looking at the different translations, and have read a lot on the subject of the origins of the bible, and even atheists can tell you that it's legitimate.

>You disregard
>questioning the bible and give below par kind of advice.

See, as a christian you can't question the bible. One thing you can do is to try to defend it. And if you can, well then there's some proof. And if you can't... Then you have to accept what you're faced with.

[tertius]

>now now now, where to start...
>First of all i agree with mumgy .
>
>I am kenyan i am a woman and christian.

Then you better start acting like one.

>First of all, the thing that i don't understands is why
>someone might want to question why don't kenyan women question
>the bible? that part to me was just flabbergusting. what
>exactly are you trying to say?

>Anyways i have a question for you. Why are you an atheist?
>because you found out that God actually doesn't exist after
>all! I mean you cant even see him, and beliving that he is
>there is like believing in santa claus. After all, scientists
>have proved with science that there is no possible way of a
>God to exist. WE already have evidence of how the world was
>created of how we came to be.

Btw. just to help you out, science cannot disprove the existance of God, and if you don't believe this, please get educated, because what you are stating is just wrong, even the worlds greatest atheists say that you cannot disprove the existence of God. (I'm a christian)

>NOw tell me.... you seem an intelligent person. YOu should
>know who painted the monalisa corect? SO who did paint the
>mona lisa?

History records that Leonardo da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa.

Check it out here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mona_Lisa

>and if santa claus exists or not who is having such a big
>debate about it? I don't see scientists trying to explain how
>santa claus possibly cannot exist. why would that be?

Santa clause doesn't exist, because by definition we can prove that he doesn't. We can go to the north pole (part of the definition), and actually test if he is there or not. God, by definition, cannot be tested like this.

>and the famous ones. can you see air? wind? sound?

Air, yes you can see air, get out your microscope, and you can see it. Wind is more abstract, but it can be explained. Sound is made up of waves, like light (supposedly), which you can't see with the human eye, by definition.

>so .. anywyas...
>who told you that Kenyan women don't question the Bible?

If you're a christian Kenyan woman, then you can't really question the Bible. By definition.

[tertius]

>About me being an Atheist, you can go through archives it is
>documented. There is no GOD, GOD IS DEAD, GOD IS JUST A
>FANTASY. GOD IS MAN’S CREATION.

I see you asking others if they can show you their credentials. How about you do that?

You've seen a recently published book, "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins.

He himself is a world renowned scientist and atheist. Yet he himself says that you cannot disprove God.

Please state your sources.

[spider-ndwalz]

..I would rather live my life believing that there is a god..than having to die believing there isn't one ; when in reality He exists..

[ATLian]

>..I would rather live my life believing that there is a
>god..than having to die believing there isn't one ; when in
>reality He exists..

Spider,

your line of thought is called Pascal's wager, named after the French philosopher who came up with it. Pascal's wager states "If you believe, and God exists, you gain everything. If you disbelieve, and God exists, you lose everything", or in other words:

No-one KNOWS whether or not god exists, people either believe or don't believe.
If you DON'T BELIEVE that god exists, and you die and you find out he DOESN'T exist, then you're OK.
If you DON'T BELIEVE that god exists, and you die and you find out he DOES exist, then you're screwed to suffer in hell forever.
If you BELIEVE that god exists, and you die and you find out he DOESN'T exist, then you're OK.
If you BELIEVE that god exists, and you die and you find out he DOES exist, then you're OK.
So regardless of whether god exists or not, you'll always have a good ending if you BELIEVE he exists.
So you better wager on the side of belief because there's nothing to lose.


So if you're believing only as insurance in case god does exist, then you are waging like Pascal did.

Of course Pascal's wager is severely flawed. If god does exist, then surely he knows who believed in him truely and those who believed "just in case". Those "just in case" believers are also hell-bound, since they aren't true believers.

Also it assumes that the only god that exists is the Christian god.

Also the claim that there's nothing to lose if you believe is a lie. Believing involves a heck of a lot of stuff that you wouldn't do if you didn't believe - attending church, Bible study, praying, fasting, meditating, blah blah blah. You change your lifestyle, you intentionally chose not to do things that a normal human being craves, etc. It can be detrimental to your wellbeing, like you saw in the divorce discussions, where some poor lady will imprison herself for life in a bad marriage just because she believes that it's ungodly to divorce.

Anyway, google or wikipedia Pascal's wager to read more about it.

I much prefer to live under the Atheist's wager: "It is better to live your life as if there are no gods, and try to make the world a better place for your being in it. If there is no god, you have lost nothing and will be remembered fondly by those you left behind. If there is a benevolent god, He will judge you on your merits and not just on whether or not you believed in Him."

[Points]

So, how is an atheist better that say a Christian? If you go by the commandments we Christians are basically told not steal, lie, kill, covet, worship others e.t.c What modern societies sees these as vices? I would say that the only advantage you have over me is that you can don't spend about two hours on sunday in church and you can be promiscous as much as your society can allow without guilt.
It is sad that you are not bound by much as being an atheist but sadly so are bound nby the laws of your fellow man. See, most things that you can think of that are prohibited by law are also prohibited by Christianity unlike you, where anything goes but guess what, you can do it or you will spend the night in jail!

[ATLian]

>So, how is an atheist better that say a Christian?

Points,

according to you, if two people were filling out a form about themselves, you would know who is good and who is bad solely based on what they fill out next to RELIGION/BELIEFS. Yaani if someone filled in Christian, you'd think he's a good person, and if someone filled out Atheist, you'd think he's a bad person. I have to say that that is the most simple minded and subjective ways to judge people that I know.

The difference between you and me is I don't judge people based on what they do or don't believe in, I judge people based on the things they do. I (an atheist) have never stolen and I have never killed anyone. President Moi, a devout staunch church-attending born-again evangelical Christian looted our country blind, plus he's directly responsible for the deaths of thousands. So Points, who is a better person?



>If you go
>by the commandments we Christians are basically told not
>steal, lie, kill, covet, worship others e.t.c

Killing and stealing are laws that every society views as bad. These actions aren't bad because god said they're bad, they are bad because they are bad, period! I don't think coveting is a sin. What drives people to succeed is coveting the lives that others do. We all want a nice house, good food, car, clothes, money to build our folks houses, set them up, take care of our kids and siblings, etc. We have seen the rich do it, and we covet it, we want to be like them. In my books, coveting is a virtue, because it creates ambition.

This is how I live my life - I am a good son, brother, uncle, cousin, friend and workmate. I don't trespass on other's rights. I don't rape, steal, kill or enslave people. I pay my taxes. I respect my elders. I am, or so I've been told, a good person. I do all this without believing in the Christian god. Yes, many of the things I do that make me good are what good Christians are told to do - I'm good to people, I assist AIDS orphans in Kenya, I do not worship other gods, etc. But also many of the things that I do that make me good go against what the Bible encourages good believers to do. e.g. I do not stone gays to death. I do not capture and enslave virgin girls who follow other religions. etc.

[ATLian]

>I would say that the only
>advantage you have over me is that you can don't spend about
>two hours on sunday in church and you can be promiscous as
>much as your society can allow without guilt.

Is that what you think atheism is all about? The chance to sleep on Sundays and ***c all the chics you want. Man, kweli you are so way off, no wonder your disdain for atheists. ***cing around is a matter of choice. I know very many Christians who ***c around. I know atheists who don't.

The main advantage I have over a believer is I am not bogged down by dogmas. A good example - The Catholic church tells it's followers never to use contraceptives, no matter what. If the John and Jane get married, then John contracts AIDS through a blood transfussion, he CANNOT use a condom when having sex with his wife. He has to do it bila condom. Period. No arguments. If John is a dyed-in-the-wool Catholic, he'll have sex without a condom, thus spreading AIDS to his wife. But in his mind he's happy because he did not go against what his dogmatic religion tells him. I am free to use my mind to take the most rational, intelligent, logical and beneficial choices in my life. My mind is not chained by an archaic set of laws. I will use the condom!

I am free to challenge what doesn't make sense, instead of shrugging my shoulders and whimpering "god's ways are too complex for me to understand." When god kills innocent children in the Bible, I see it for the attrocity it is. I don't sugar coat the evil with statements like "they're now in heaven with god."

Mental freedom is bila doubt the biggest benefit I have over you as an atheist.

Of course there are those many other tired bothersome things, like praying for stuff that's never answered, not having to remind this great god yet again of how great and wondorous he is, turning the other cheek, etc.

[wajibu]

>>So, how is an atheist better that say a Christian? If you go by the commandments we Christians are basically told not steal, lie, kill, covet, worship others e.t.c What modern societies sees these as vices? I would say that the only advantage you have over me is that you can don't spend about two hours on sunday in church and you can be promiscous as much as your society can allow without guilt.
It is sad that you are not bound by much as being an atheist but sadly so are bound nby the laws of your fellow man. See, most things that you can think of that are prohibited by law are also prohibited by Christianity unlike you, where anything goes but guess what, you can do it or you will spend the night in jail!<<

I guess as an Atheist I subscribe to the fundamental law we should treat each other as humans. I’m not the best example of an Atheist since I’m vindictive to women and don’t intend to change. In general people should be judged by character not beliefs or religion. Christians have this thing called prayer and forgiveness which is misconstrued and basically a copout. Repentance in a man's heart for a wrong done would cancel and annul any sin, so if Hitler repented before his death then no one can disapprove his evil nature. God has already forgiven him. Reality of the situation, Hitler could be in heaven having a never ending bliss with the angels. A Christian is compelled to be nice by the laws in the bible but an Atheist out of his own goodwill. Your argument suggests only the bible prohibits you from doing all those things you call evil. I suggest examining your own character. As long as you have that prayer and forgiveness card to pull after the sinning sessions then why should Christians change in general?


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