[ATLian]

Milanya,

let me give you my take on the 2 questions you asked above:

>Wajibu, out of pure curiosity, how do you believe the world
>came to be, evolution/big bang ama?

Personally, I have no freaking idea where we came from. None at all. But I think I'm intelligent enough to dismiss those ludicrous theories (the Maasai came from the sky) and those theories bila any evidence to back them (creation). I'll be the first to admit that I'm not smart enough to really understand the Big bang Theory, so I can't even give an intelligent critique on it, but the one thing I respect it for is it's the only theory of all the theories out there that has evidence that has been back up by various independent sources.

Also my major issue with creation is - if god really did create the earth as that beautiful garden of Eden, and he wanted us to live happily ever after there, why then did he also create stuff like the polio virus, the small pox virus, etc. What possible reason would god have to create a perfect being in man, then throw in the malaria parasite which would then kill millions of these men every year? The fact that such killer viruses exist surely is a sign that they originate from some other means, rather than them having being made by a loving peaceful nice god. Ama?



>Safina, I look at the world around me and even how the human
>body is designed and I see workings of something beyond human
>ability. Some people choose to call that thing God. I simply
>cannot see how this world just came to be out of nothing.

That's why I say that "God is but the answer to all of man's unanswered questions!" 2 centuries ago, if you asked a typical miro in Africa what lightning was, he'd have confidently told you that it was god's anger manifesting tiself in the sky. Now we all know that it's just electricity. One day we'll know the answers to many of these things we attribute to god...

[milanya]

Where did the black hole come from?

[safina]

@milanya

Before I give you my answer,tell me where this God came from.I guess he/she came out of nothing.Don't quote the bible for me please

[Zelda]

@ wajibu, your conclusions rest on too many assumptions.

>My problem with Kenyan or most
>African women is; they don’t question the bible. They will be
>quick to criticize my lifestyle or my beliefs but not the very
>essence there life is based.

this is very interesting. so you have had the opportunity to meet MOST KENYAN AND AFRICAN WOMEN?
you obviously haven't, but even so, why do you think that this quality is unique to african female believers?
isn't everyone (including yourself) quick to judge others' lifestyles and beliefs, but not their own?

>Belief in a higher power is the
>worst form of blind faith, though there are others. Blind
>faith, to me, suggests unwillingness to question or doubt even
>when presented with overwhelming evidence I guess for Kenyan
>women to question the existence of God is a sin and it is
>punishable by death.

not so. there are several believers who question the basic precepts of their faith, and by questioning, they get greater insight into existence.
the mistake that several ppl on this forum make is assuming that everyone else "just doesn't get it".
christians think so about atheists and muslims, muslims about christians and atheists, and atheists about believers.
being an atheist certainly opens your mind to certain wisdoms, but those are not the only wisdoms.

>With all the
>debates that go on in this forum, I’m yet to see a female with
>the nerve to question the bible.

that simply means you need to visit the archives and read through all the conversations. we have definitely had (and still have) our resident female atheists.

>Given the options science gives the best attempt in explaining the >origins of life and evolution. Science is based on evidence and a >lot of break through is made everyday.

science does explain alot, but it doesn't explain everything. the same is true about religion: it explains some things, but not all things. it strikes me that somebody who tries to explain EVERYTHING using the old testament is no different from somebody who tries to explain EVERYTHING using "logic", "reason" and "science". we should just accept that every system/ form of knowledge has its limits.

>Kenyan women are either afraid or will not be comfortable with >employing reason and questions as our guide when searching this >conflicting matters. They would rather turn to faith.

i'm curious: who exactly are you hanging out with? you should try diversifying your crowd kidogo. among the kenyans/ africans i know, there are strong believers (from multiple religious traditions), and there are atheists, agnostics etc.

>Milanya I have seen you in the other discussion forums offering >advice from relationship, finance, weather, marriage, education and >even political. I gather you have a lot of knowledge in the >different aspects, but I wonder how come you hit a snag when it >comes to religion. You disregard questioning the bible and give >below par kind of advice.

milanya's most definitely insightful (as are several other people on this forum), but you should not separate that from her faith. it's probable that her experiences AS A BELIEVER have played a big role in her perspectives on relationships, marriage, education etc. likewise, your experiences as an atheist (if that is what you are) have played a huge role in the ideas you have developed on life, education, people etc. seems to me that you're implying that a believer cannot be wise, or that wisdom and logic are contrary to faith. if so, isn't that judgemental of you?

[Zelda]

.

[mumgy]

Remember that at the blackhole the gravity is
>infinite so time stops passing.If you look in the
>black hole all you would see is singularity frozen in
> time.All matter and energy from the Big bang to
>create universes come from the black hole
>singularity.

Safina and Wajibu
I am kenyan woman and NO not an atheist. I am a Christian and those that you categorize as not questioning anything. I am an inquisitive person in class and everywhere else but I cannot question God.How would I question such perfectly made wonderful creations of God. Scientists always explain things with ALREADY EXISTING THINGS. I hope you understand where I am coming from. For example a scientist explains the result of Na reacting with water. Its a very violent reaction. Why? Because Sodium is very unstable and very reactive. Why so? Because its at the top of the periodic table. Where does Sodium come from? From the ground underneath. How did Sodium get there? By some chemical reaction between metal A and B. Do you get where I am coming from? If not lets go to The big bang theory which has its only flaws in itself. The theory attempts to explain how the universe came to being but how come it uses ALREADY existing things like it states that the universe emerged from a tremendously dense and hot state about 13.7 billion years ago. What cause the hot and dense state? Where was this hot and dense state? Big bang is still a controversy mpaka wa sasa. So atheist using this to defend themselves are a little misplaced.
Another one is the theory of evolution of mankind. I agree with some aspects of evolution like man has changed over time, brain wise that is. This is evidenced by the fact that the world was technologically behind 2000 years ago but now we have cars, proper roads, I mean things that did not exist from years ago. I also agree with natural selection and the theory of use and disuse to some extents but I disagree that man evolved from tiny little creatures as scientist try to imply. Where did these tiny creatures come from? If you say matter and energy you are just more confused cuz where did this matter and energy come from? And how did trees start growing, how did the fish get into the water? How was male and female species created? Why male and female? Science doesn't answer this!!!

Science may seem to make sense but science is just science. It does not explain to you exactly how things came to be. It always creates a chain of explanation based on things that already exist not telling us exactly how these things that already exist, that they are enthusistically using as their explanation, came to be!!!

For that, I believe in a supernatural being. This supernatural being does not necessarily have to be called God. It is supernatural a supernatural power beyond anyone's understanding not even the scientists...thats why their theories always begin from what this supernatural power created. Un the bible this supernatural power manifests in fire, water, wind, whirlwind to name but a few.

[teejay]

Why does everyone seem to think that the pope is the First and last authority on matters Christian?

" and the whole followed the beast"

It is amazing how the bible puts it exactly the way people fear the pope regardless of their religous background.

And by the way atheism is also a religion.

[teejay]

>My first "serious" chile, way back in Form 2, was an atheist.
>She's the one who really brought me to terms with my atheism.
>She broke down the ambiguities in the Bible and religion in a
>way that made me really see things clearly. She's still an
>atheist, but contrary to what TeeJay would believe, she's the
>nicest person out there.

You just had to drag me into your arguments.Buddy, obsession is a bad thing. You got duped and dragged into the path of destruction like a cow to the abattoir, and here you are chest thumping and exalting your doom as if you have pleased the most respected person.It appears to me that your brains are really never with you. Someone else do the thinking for you- a woman. You are the eighth wonder, buddy. Tell me this, Yaani the Story of Samson never rang in your head at that time?

You are basically saying that, When you were at Eden, your gal who had already eaten the fruit convinced you and you ate them too and bacame more "inteligent". This what I call blind love.Since women seem to hold sway over, it is my advice that you look for Saved one. Who knows you may just be brought back, prodigal!

And What is this nice you are talking about? Biscuits are nice, chocolates are nice sweets are nice, boyfriends/galfriends are nice. Wake up odiero!

Salvation is not by works of self. Haven't you heard that Self is corrupt and therefore anything that comes from self is corrupt. Salvation cannot be earned, it is a gift. Ephesians 2:8-9,"Because of His kindness, you have been saved through trusting Christ. And even trusting is not of yourselves; it too is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good we have done, so none of us can take any credit for it."

Your friend is nicely corrupt.

[ThoroughlyThrombosed]

Man created God in his own image.

Religion is basically something created by those scared ****less of death.

if you think of time in geologic periods then the length of time represented by the new testament (ie from the time of Christ) would be shorter than a blink of an eyelid. The entire bible would be swallowed by a cough.

[Americanized]

>Just curious, are there any atheist Kenyan women. I’m yet to
>meet any; I remember when I told my mum I was an atheist. She
>almost got a heart attack. Most atheists will at some point
>have to contend with close family members who are religious -
>perhaps very devoutly religious, even objecting to atheism and
>atheists, especially within the family. The thought of God
>made sense to me as a kid just like Santa Claus (especially
>with all the encouragement of belief that a well meaning
>Christian family brings) .With me it started with logical
>arguments in my head that made me start to realize something
>didn’t make sense. It was scary to lose the fantasy of God
>always looking out for you, and meeting up with my family in
>heaven for never ending bliss. Now, it makes the years till my
>death much more cherished and lived. When I die, I want to be
>cremated and ash scattered in the Rift Valley otherwise my
>body should be disposed in a shallow grave by the side of the
>road for the worms to feast. My problem with Kenyan or most
>African women is; they don’t question the bible. They will be
>quick to criticize my lifestyle or my beliefs but not the very
>essence there life is based. Belief in a higher power is the
>worst form of blind faith, though there are others. Blind
>faith, to me, suggests unwillingness to question or doubt even
>when presented with overwhelming evidence I guess for Kenyan
>women to question the existence of God is a sin and it is
>punishable by death. And death isn't the end of the
>punishment, it's just the beginning. You are condemned to fry
>in Hell forever. So the best defense is to suspend all logic
>and reason in order to believe in God. Otherwise how would you
>achieve salvation and eternal life in paradise? With all the
>debates that go on in this forum, I’m yet to see a female with
>the nerve to question the bible.
>
>http://i11.tinypic.com/44i5ylg.jpg


PARAGRAPHS, MATHAFAKKA! PARAGRAPHS!