[Wantai]

lol @ reggie woic. It was only a matter of time before of of the mashada police found out Bachelor - as usual! Meanwhile Bachelor is busy being "infaCtuated".

http://www.mashada.com/forums/index....id=42676#42676


But I guess it is a form of improvement from plagiarising porn and scripts laced with sex.

kudos Bachelor, but never mock God as you have been told previously by Native Son.

[Bachelor]

@Reggie

do you know the meaning of coincidence?

@wantai

whats the beef?

[dadyamaru]

I think all Bachelor wanted is attention.
Am sure he got all of u....werever he's is laughing cz he got wot he wanted.

While he's celebrating this i wish him Long lyf......so that he/she can live n see the doubts he/she has about God existence.


and for any1 who has doubts about God Existence jst take a close look of how the baby is made.
dont take this for granted

[teejay]

MK Only a "Thomas" will raise such questions.
================================================== ==============
Reuben Kigame you said. I feel for the brother, My deepest condolences are in order. This issue about his grief raises the question about suffering. You seem to quetion the reason why even those people who fear God suffer.

There are quite a number of reasons. But before we explore them at later a moment we must first, ask oursleves what is means to "Take your cross and it."

Many a people expect alot of Goodies when they Come to God. The situation is even made worse by the fact that man is constantly under some sought of burden or grief and often thinks that rushing to church will magically save them from their problems. What they do not know is that rushing to the church may not instantly rescue them. When they experience a tarrying repsonse, they renounce their faith and forget that by doing so they have thrown away the cross they had decided to embrace, no matter the consequnces, and have even gone into greater danger of loosing thier place with God.

It is not easy being a follower of Christ and this is exactly the same reason it is also important to such for deeper meanings of" not all those call me Lord Lord Shall enter the Kingdom of God" and " Many are called but a few are chosen."

Other people are fence sitters. They want put their feet on either side of the fence and wait to see which side is cool. God has no place for such people, because with God there no such thing a the grey area. Such people may appear to be Christians, but their relationship with Christ is always at an all time low.

Let us look at suffering breifly. It is not necessarily a result of sin John 9:2-3."And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him." Here Christ actually confirms truth in Job.That is, physical infirmities, or other human sufferings, are not at all necessarily related to human sin. God has often allowed sufferings for reasons known only to Him but always with good reason, as confirmed in Romans 8:28. Indeed a fine medalion that we all like to adorn has always passed through some intense processes that brings forth a final, fine product. After Job's temptation he came out much stonger and even more faithfull unto God.

Suffering can also be directly as a result of our own disobedience.THis one is self explanatory.

At times suffering comes to us because of our desire to follow a certain certain cause. Following Christ for example can invite upon us very difficult moments. We must note Christ never told us that because we are his followers we can never go through suffering.Luke 21:17-19 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.But there shall not an hair of your head perish.In your patience possess ye your souls."

May I also say that by virtue of being an earthling suffering is unavoidable. Therefore "My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. James 1:2-3

[ToothB]

Why Does God Permit Suffering?



EVERYWHERE you look, there is suffering. Some people bring it on themselves. They contract sexually transmitted diseases or experience the effects of drug or alcohol abuse or of smoking. Or they may encounter health problems because of poor eating habits. However, much suffering results from factors or events beyond the control of the average person: war, ethnic violence, crime, poverty, famine, disease. Something else that humans basically cannot control is suffering related to aging and death.

The Bible assures us that "God is love." (1 John 4:8) Why, then, has a loving God allowed all this suffering to continue for so many centuries? When will he remedy the situation? To answer such questions, we need to examine God's purpose with regard to humans. This will help us to understand why God has allowed suffering and what he will do about it.

The Gift of Free Will

When God created the first human, he produced more than just a body with a brain. Further, God did not create Adam and Eve to be mindless robots. He implanted in them the faculty of free will. And that was a fine gift, for "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good." (Genesis 1:31) Yes, "perfect is his activity." (Deuteronomy 32:4) All of us appreciate this gift of free will because we do not want all our thoughts and actions dictated to us without ever having a choice in anything.

However, was the fine gift of free will to be used without limits? In directions given to early Christians, God's Word answers: "Be as free people, and yet holding your freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God." (1 Peter 2:16) For the common good, there must be boundaries. Hence, free will was to be regulated by the rule of law. Otherwise, anarchy would result.

Whose Law?

Whose law was to determine the proper limits of freedom? The answer to this question has to do with the fundamental reason why God has permitted suffering. Since God created humans, he knows best what laws they need to obey for their own good and for the good of others. The Bible puts it this way: "I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk."—Isaiah 48:17.

Clearly, a vital point is this: Humans were not created to be independent of God. He made them in such a way that their success and happiness depend on obedience to his righteous laws. God's prophet Jeremiah said: "I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step."—Jeremiah 10:23.

God made mankind subject to his physical laws, such as the law of gravity. Similarly, he made humans to be subject to his moral laws, which are designed to result in a harmonious society. For good reason, then, God's Word urges: "Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own understanding."—Proverbs 3:5.

Thus, the human family could never be successful in regulating itself without God's rulership. Trying to be independent from him, people would devise social, economic, political, and religious systems that would conflict with one another, and 'man would dominate man to his injury.'—Ecclesiastes 8:9.

What Went Wrong?

God gave our first parents, Adam and Eve, a perfect start. They had perfect bodies and minds and a paradise garden for a home. If they had submitted to God's rule, they would have remained perfect and happy. In time, they would have been the parents of an entire perfect, happy human family living on a paradise earth. That was God's purpose for the human race.—Genesis 1:27-29; 2:15.

However, our original ancestors misused their free will. They wrongly thought that they could be successful independent of God. Of their own free will, they stepped outside the boundaries of his laws. (Genesis, chapter 3) Because they rejected his rulership, he no longer was obligated to sustain them in perfection. 'They acted ruinously on their own part, did not remain his children, and the defect was their own.'—Deuteronomy 32:5.

From the time they disobeyed God, Adam and Eve began to degenerate in body and mind. With Jehovah is the source of life. (Psalm 36:9) So because of cutting themselves off from Jehovah, the first human couple became imperfect and eventually died. (Genesis 3:19) Consistent with laws of genetic inheritance, their offspring could receive only what their parents themselves possessed. And what was that? It was imperfection and death. The apostle Paul therefore wrote: "Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."—Romans 5:12.

The Main Issue—Sovereignty

When Adam and Eve rebelled against God, they challenged his sovereignty, that is, his right to rule. Jehovah could have destroyed them and started over with another couple, but that would not have settled the issue of whose rulership is right and best for people. Granted time to develop their societies according to their own ideas, humans would demonstrate beyond any doubt whether rulership independent from God could ever be successful.

What do thousands of years of human history tell us? For all those centuries, people have tried many kinds of social, economic, political, and religious systems. However, wickedness and suffering have continued. In fact, 'wicked men have advanced from bad to worse,' especially in our time.—2 Timothy 3:13.

The 20th century saw a peak of scientific and industrial achievements. But it also saw the worst suffering in the entire history of the human race. And no matter what medical advances are made, the law of God still holds true: Humans separated from God—the source of life—get sick, grow old, and die. How clearly it has been proved that humans cannot 'direct their own steps'!

God's Sovereignty Asserted

Once and for all time, this tragic experiment in independence from God has demonstrated that rulership by humans apart from him can never succeed. Only God's rulership can bring happiness, unity, health, and life. Moreover, Jehovah God's infallible Word, the Holy Bible, shows that we are living in "the last days" of human rule independent from God. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) Jehovah's toleration of this and of wickedness and suffering is nearing its end.

God will soon intervene in human affairs. The Scriptures tell us: "In the days of those kings [human rulerships now existing] the God of heaven will set up a kingdom [in heaven] that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people [never again will humans rule the earth]. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms [present rulerships], and it itself will stand to times indefinite."—Daniel 2:44.

The vindication of Jehovah God's sovereignty by means of the heavenly Kingdom is the Bible's theme. Jesus made this his foremost teaching. He said: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come."—Matthew 24:14.

When God's rulership replaces man's rule, who will survive and who will not? At Proverbs 2:21, 22, we are assured: "The upright [who uphold God's rule] are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked [who do not uphold God's rule], they will be cut off from the very earth." The divinely inspired psalmist sang: "Just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more . . . But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, and they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it."—Psalm 37:10, 11, 29.

A Marvelous New World

Under the rulership of God's Kingdom, survivors of the end of the present system of things will be ushered into an earth cleansed of wickedness and suffering. God-given instruction will be provided for mankind, and in time "the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea." (Isaiah 11:9) This upbuilding, positive teaching will result in a truly peaceful, harmonious human society. Thus, there will be no more war, murder, violence, rape, theft, or any other crime.

Marvelous physical benefits will flow to obedient humans living in God's new world. There will be a canceling out of all the bad consequences of rebellion against God's rule. Imperfection, sickness, old age, and death will be things of the past. The Bible assures us: "No resident will say: 'I am sick.'" Moreover, the Scriptures promise: "At that time the eyes of the blind ones will be opened, and the very ears of the deaf ones will be unstopped. At that time the lame one will climb up just as a stag does, and the tongue of the speechless one will cry out in gladness." (Isaiah 33:24; 35:5, 6) What a thrill it will be to enjoy vibrant health every day—forever!

Under God's loving direction, the inhabitants of that new world will use their energies and skills in building an earth-wide paradise. Gone forever will be poverty, hunger, and homelessness, for Isaiah's prophecy states: "They will certainly build houses and have occupancy; and they will certainly plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating." (Isaiah 65:21, 22) Indeed, "they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making them tremble."—Micah 4:4.

The earth will respond to the loving care of God and obedient humans. We have these Scriptural assurances: "The wilderness and the waterless region will exult, and the desert plain will be joyful and blossom as the saffron. . . . In the wilderness waters will have burst out, and torrents in the desert plain." (Isaiah 35:1, 6) "There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; on the top of the mountains there will be an overflow."—Psalm 72:16.

What about the billions of people who have died? Those in God's memory will be brought back to life, for "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Yes, the dead will be restored to life. They will be taught the wonderful truths regarding God's rulership and be given the opportunity to live forever in Paradise.—John 5:28, 29.

The Failure of Human Rule
Regarding human rulership, former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt stated: "We humans . . . have always only partially governed the world, and most of the time very badly. . . . We have never governed it in total peace." Human Development Report 1999 noted: "All countries report erosion of their social fabric, with social unrest, more crime, more violence in the home. . . . Global threats are increasing, outgrowing national abilities to tackle them, and outpacing international responses."


By these means, Jehovah God will completely reverse the awful condition of suffering, sickness, and death that has held mankind in its grip for thousands of years. No more sickness! No more disabilities! No more death! God "will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things [will] have passed away."—Revelation 21:3, 4.


That is how God will end suffering. He will destroy this corrupt world and usher in an entirely new system of things in which "righteousness is to dwell." (2 Peter 3:13) What good news this is! We desperately need that new world. And we will not have to wait long to see it. From the fulfillment of Bible prophecies, we know that the new world is at the door, and God's permission of suffering is nearing its end.—Matthew 24:3-14.

[satjas]

>EVERYWHERE you look, there is suffering. Some people bring it
>on themselves.

Also depending on your perspective, everywhere you look there is happiness and these people also bring it upon themselves, don't you agree?????

>The Gift of Free Will

> He implanted in them the faculty of free
>will. And that was a fine gift, for "God saw everything he had
>made and, look! it was very good." (Genesis 1:31) Yes,
>"perfect is his activity."

So far so good.....God has made things perfect!!!! and given us freewill, perfect!!!!

>However, was the fine gift of free will to be used without
>limits?

Is it very hard for you to understand that something 'free' cannot have a 'limit'???? This is where you now claim that God is imperfect and you will use reasons from the bible to justify this misguided concept.

>Hence, free
>will was to be regulated by the rule of law. Otherwise,
>anarchy would result.

If i have freewill given to me by God, then can I express my freewill and say that I reject this very God who gave me the freewill in the first place????

>Whose Law?

Definately not God's law ,or Jesus's law but the law according to the bible written by men several years later and amended on several occassions.

The Bible puts it this way: "I,
>Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit
>yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you
>should walk."—Isaiah 48:17.

That just simply means that God is in control of everything, all the time. It means that when one walks and chooses to take a certain route, then even that route is predestined cos God is in full control ALL the time. Do not think that at the moment you make that decision, God is not involved!!! God is involved ALL THE TIME.

>Clearly, a vital point is this: Humans were not created to be
>independent of God. He made them in such a way that their
>success and happiness depend on obedience to his righteous
>laws.

Can you see a hint of narcisism here? That if you obey me, you get rewarded and if you don't you get punished.......yet you yourself have said that humans were not created to be independent of God, thus God must have been involved in the decision making of those who did not obey God, right???

>God made mankind subject to his physical laws, such as the law
>of gravity.

woh woh woh.....dude, everything is relative....the laws of gravity cease to exist in space where mankind has been. Helium at 2K defies gravity...the list goes on......

> Similarly, he made humans to be subject to his
>moral laws, which are designed to result in a harmonious
>society. For good reason, then, God's Word urges: "Trust in
>Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean upon your own
>understanding."—Proverbs 3:5.

Generally, a parent will tell his/her kids to obey them without question, without asking for reasons, without thinking for themselves. Thus kids get brainwashed...the madarasas are a perfect example of this.

And what moral laws are these? I am interested in these moral laws.....could you list them and we can see if some don't stand the test of common sense?????


>Thus, the human family could never be successful in regulating
>itself without God's rulership. Trying to be independent from
>him, people would devise social, economic, political, and
>religious systems that would conflict with one another, and
>'man would dominate man to his injury.'—Ecclesiastes 8:9.

here is an admission to what i have been trying to say all along......people would devise blah blah, RELIGIOUS systems......that just sums it up!!!


>God gave our first parents, Adam and Eve, a perfect start.
>They had perfect bodies and minds and a paradise garden for a
>home. If they had submitted to God's rule, they would have
>remained perfect and happy. In time, they would have been the
>parents of an entire perfect, happy human family living on a
>paradise earth. That was God's purpose for the human
>race.—Genesis 1:27-29; 2:15.

I cannot believe you beleive this fable/myth simply cos it exists in the bible, without questioning it further. Don't you believe that even now God's plan is still perfect?? I do.

>However, our original ancestors misused their free will. They
>wrongly thought that they could be successful independent of
>God. Of their own free will, they stepped outside the
>boundaries of his laws. (Genesis, chapter 3) Because they
>rejected his rulership, he no longer was obligated to sustain
>them in perfection. 'They acted ruinously on their own part,
>did not remain his children, and the defect was their
>own.'—Deuteronomy 32:5.

Please break free from this myth....its ludicrous.

> Consistent with laws of
>genetic inheritance, their offspring could receive only what
>their parents themselves possessed. And what was that? It was
>imperfection and death.

this here shows the level of understanding some christians have of genetics.....if these laws hold true according to what you have said then we are ALL with the same genetic strain and everyone knows what inbreeding does. I am sorry but your theory is flawed. Adam and eve exist just as much as adam and steve!!!


>The apostle Paul therefore wrote:
>"Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death
>through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had
>all sinned."—Romans 5:12.

this has been drilled into humans from time immemorial as a control mechanism, to show them that they are 'bad' and that if they accept 'this(jesus)' they will become 'good'. it's a simple trick and it has worked for ages.


> Humans
>separated from God—the source of life—get sick, grow old, and
>die.

Hold on dude, didn't you just say earlier on that people cannot be independent of God?? And now you are telling us that we are seperated from God?? and if we are seperated from God then in whose realm are we in???

> Only God's rulership can bring
>happiness, unity, health, and life.

this is akin to saying that right now right here, God is not ruling. So pray, i ask, who is in charge here, now?????

>God will soon intervene in human affairs.

Any idea when?? Cos these guys have been saying this for damn too long.....false hope right? religions thrive on this false hope cos they know that all people have is hope, hope for a better tomorrow.

>The vindication of Jehovah God's sovereignty by means of the
>heavenly Kingdom is the Bible's theme. Jesus made this his
>foremost teaching.

that is untrue...Jesus's foremost teaching was to love one another...love dude!!!love.

>What about the billions of people who have died? Those in
>God's memory will be brought back to life, for "there is going
>to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the
>unrighteous." (Acts 24:15) Yes, the dead will be restored to
>life. They will be taught the wonderful truths regarding God's
>rulership and be given the opportunity to live forever in
>Paradise.—John 5:28, 29.

hmm.....so Hitler, Polpot and co. are going to live forever in paradise...what a way to go!!..

the good thing about you guys is al least you don't go around blowing people up or issuing fatwas...looking forward to your reply...

-the paradigm shifter......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[safina]

the simple truth is

I used to be God's co-pilot,but our plane crashed on mount Ararat and I had to eat him.Sorry if I eat you God

If God made us in his on image,I believe he has a sense of humor.He should be cracking after reading that statement.

[ATLian]

>God is very just and
>there is no way he'd destroy what is clean or innocent. He
>got Mr Lot out of Sodom before he destroyed because Lot was
>faithful unto him?

TeeJay,

was Lot a good man? When those angels came to tell Lot to leave, the masses gathered outside the door asking Lot to give them the angels, so that the mob could have homosexual sex with them. Lot instead offered the mob his two daughters. Incase you didn't understand that let me rephrase it - instead of sending out 2 angels who had superhuman powers to go and unleash hail and brimstone on a rabid group of homosexual rapists, or instead of sacrificing his ass for his daughters by volunteering himself to be raped, Lot offered the mob his 2 virgin daughters to deflower, rape, sodomize, impregnate, gang bang and perform whatever other fantasies they may have had. How the **** can god view this man as good? Tell me where else a man can claim proudly to have offered his daughters to a mob for rape and still be called good?

You also say that "God is very just and there is no way he'd destroy what is clean or innocent". Well, god looked across Sodom, and ignored all those 2 and 3 week old babies who had never done anything wrong in their lives, and chose to burn them because their uncles and older brothers were gay! WTF? Plus after they were rescued, Lot's daughters god Lot drunk, had sex with him, and the kids they got were the guys who formed the Moabites and Amonites, 2 of god's mortal enemies. So this all-knowing just god rescued these two women despite knowing the sin they'd commit in the future, and the sinful kingdoms that would emerge from their incest, and he instead chose to smite innocent little babies? Please explain to me that logic! The only logical answer I have is that he needed to create tribes for the Israelites to annihilate in the future, thus satisfying his blood thirst.



>Have you ever read the conversation between the Serpent in the
>Garden of Eden and Akina Adam? Have you ever tried to find out

TeeJay, I asked you "Please give me just ONE specific Biblical example where Satan tried to potray god as a dictator but failed. Just one", and this is the answer you give me? Yes, I have read that conversation, but I'd like your take on it, and it's relevance to my question.



>I take it that a rational person will mean you- The
>unbeliever

No, I don't mean that. I know very many rational believers. They clearly admit that some of the stuff in the Bible is just retarded, and unlike you, Kemi or TM, they wouldn't hack and boil to death little babies only because they believe god commanded them to.



>I asked this question once and you ignored it. I will ask you
>again.
>What is your understanding of the original sin.

The original sin is called that because it is literally the original sin, the first sin ever committed, when Eve and Adam ate the forbidden fruit. Because of that they were cursed by god, and all their descendants would be born with this curse. I think that's pretty straight forward with no room for re-mixes, ama? Tell me what YOUR understanding of the original sin is. BTW yet again this shows how unjust god is, since he'll punish my little neice who can't even say "Mummy" yet for the sins of 2 people 7,000 years ago. WTF?

[ATLian]

>Did you know what the bible says about people
>like you.
>
>" A fool says in heart, thata there is no God"

TeeJay, you need to be careful about calling others fools, because the same Bible says in Matthew 5:22 - "... and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." Chunga, you might be in hell...



>1. How come there are no more people evolving from dust
>today?

Maybe this is why you have such beef with evolution. No where does it say in evolution that we evolved from dust. No where! Evolution (at least Darwinian Evolution) says we all started from a single cell, and billions of years later, we are what we are. Plus, evolution takes millions of years. It's not possible to notice evolution in your lifetime. I've read that our small toes are basically irrelevant, and a million years from now, the humans might not have them...



>2.Charles Darwin himself was a product of a marital union
>between man and woman where did he get his idea that man
>evolved from dust?

Again, Darwin does not say that we evolved from dust, meaning that the rest of your question is irrelevant since it's based on a false premise.



>3. Am sure the man during his days, he must have done what I
>did as a child,given that there were PS1 & PS2-mold clay
>figures that resembled man. Did he manage to see even one
>those turn into a human?

I honestly hope that this was a rhetoric question or a poor attempt at humor...



>Yet you claim that Evolution can be substantiated.

You claim that creation can be substantiated, and unlike Darwin, you offer no proof...

[ATLian]

>No one knows the mind of God, no on earth. You know, you
>amuse me, but I find that most people are ignorant of who God
>is. It is ok to question, but God has given us all the reasons
>to our question according to His own view. He knows what he
>withholds from us and what he wants us to know.

Volina,

do you see the irony in saying "No one knows the mind of God, no on earth" in one sentence, then in the next lines describing to us what's in god's mind? Like I always say, a Christian knows and understands god when it comes to the "nice" things. He knows what god wants from us, he understands why god gave us free will, etc. But when the bad things come along, suddenly the Christian has no idea how god works. So when you ask why god commanded his people to kill all the children in a captured city, suddenly Volina's answer becomes the norm - No one knows the mind of God, no on earth!



>The biggest question with evil is, "Why doesn't God prevent it
>from happening?" If God is really an all-good and all-powerful
>being, why doesn't he do something?

1) Because there is no god

2) Because god created evil

3) Because god is evil