[reggie_woic]

...are of a greater number AND EXTENT than the voices chaos in other religions (PROBABLY PUT TOGETHER TOO)?

[Coach]

Death,

>Ok Coach, let's try this another way. Do you agree that the
>voices chaos in Islam, are of a greater number than the voices
>chaos in other religions?

Yes! Let me ask you another question in return because my response (only saying yes) doesn't shed light on the issue. Do you agree that Muslims are being persecuted, opressed, their lands occupied and killed more than any other religion?

[chotadipo]

If there is any oppression happening to the muslims in their countries, it is ruling muslim **elite who should be blamed.

**it could be from a political, religious, economic, or ideological stand point.

[ATLian]

>Do
>you agree that Muslims are being persecuted, opressed, their
>lands occupied and killed more than any other religion?

Coach,

where else apart from Palestine are Muslims losing their land? And where are Muslims being persecuted by NON-Muslims? I think we'd all agree that the biggest persecutors of Muslims are fellow Muslims. Almost every country that has an Islamic majority is a de facto dictatorship, where the citizens have no rights. I think that for a Muslim to enjoy freedom, he would most likely have to move to a non-Islamic country

[martin77]

>>Do
>>you agree that Muslims are being persecuted, opressed, their
>>lands occupied and killed more than any other religion?
>
>Coach,
>
>where else apart from Palestine are Muslims losing their land?
>And where are Muslims being persecuted by NON-Muslims? I think
>we'd all agree that the biggest persecutors of Muslims are
>fellow Muslims. Almost every country that has an Islamic
>majority is a de facto dictatorship, where the citizens have
>no rights. I think that for a Muslim to enjoy freedom, he
>would most likely have to move to a non-Islamic country


Atlian, ebu remind me. are you an atheist or are you anti christian?

[Coach]

ATLian,

>where else apart from Palestine are Muslims losing their land?
>And where are Muslims being persecuted by NON-Muslims? I think
>we'd all agree that the biggest persecutors of Muslims are
>fellow Muslims. Almost every country that has an Islamic
>majority is a de facto dictatorship, where the citizens have
>no rights. I think that for a Muslim to enjoy freedom, he
>would most likely have to move to a non-Islamic country

The mass killing of civilians in Lebanon is another good example. There's Chechnya, Iraq and Afghanistan where a foreign non-Muslim army is calling the shots and installing a puppet govt against the will of the people.

Most Muslim countries are dictatorships, but if they were democratic USA and GB would lose a lot of influence. This is just like how most African countries were for long left to be ruled by dictators because it suited the west. Remember that a leader liek Lumumba was deposed by USA and Mobutu brought in his place. The west prefers those despots because democratic and accountable world would have a massive economic and military impact on the west. Some Latim American countries are freeing themselves from the chains of capitalism and from the influence of Washington. They are a good ecample for the rest of the world, especially Middle East and Africa.

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc, even though they are oppressive regimes, they are not criticised becasue they are allied with the west. Saddam and Osama used to be allies of the west, but they were branded evil when their "contract of friendship" with the west expired and they suddenly (after years of funding and support from USA) became evil.

[Death]

Coach,

I Believe ATLien has sufficiently answered my question. The reality is that it's just Palestine. These are not the days of the crusades, Christians are not running around killing muslims.
I would like to add this on. As an atheist, I can tell you this much, I think all religions are equally false, and I'm not a fan of the way religions force their illogical dogmatic (and often harmful) beliefs on everyone around. I often take specific issue with Christianity because I live in a predominantly Christian state, and I'm faced with the radical beliefs and attitudes of the Christian right everyday, But I will say this; having been in both predominantly Christian and Muslim places, if I had to choose, it wouldn't even be decision, hands down, I'd pick the lesser of the two evils and go with the predominantly Christian Society.
A society where muslims are the majority is by far the most oppressive and intolerant (often to the point of violence) of the two. To exist there, one basically has to live and act like a muslim. That, is my issue with Islam Coach. Please address it.

[spairo]

@DEATH

Some comments are bordering blasphemous, though you talk of some Islamic regime are more oppressing citing your example to the current so called Islamic governments I do believe as a true believer of Islam, they is no currently a well established Islamic state which is govern as the way Allah would like, what we are having is just some secular state with Muslim Majority.
Blasphemous in that, what we know as Islamic state are ruled by Quran and guidance form Allah and his Prophet, if in this case is this way, then Allah can not command wrong things as in Quran.

[teejay]

ATLian and Death I’m impressed. Quite interesting what you too are teaching Coach, albeit s/he is not going down meekly.

@ Spairo

Do you really expect us to believe when you say that if the Koran is left to be the law that rules people, then all will be well. I Think not. What I have seen in your posts is by far the worst case of advocating for violence of oppression in the name of religion. I’m not surprised to hear Death choose the lesser of his two evils. He refuses to join the Islamic side for reason I have cited in your posts and many other Islamic goofs s/he has seen around.

@ Coach Kaka mimi bado niko, Kwa hivyo tarajia kero. Ukweli ni kama Nomad hana pahala kuishi daima, kwa sababu anapoelekeza kidole chake kwako, si rafiki tena yeye. Hapo safari yake huanza tena.

[spairo]

>@ Spairo
>
>Do you really expect us to believe when you say that if the
>Koran is left to be the law that rules people, then all will
>be well. I Think not. What I have seen in your posts is by far
>the worst case of advocating for violence of oppression in the
>name of religion. I’m not surprised to hear Death choose the
>lesser of his two evils. He refuses to join the Islamic side
>for reason I have cited in your posts and many other Islamic
>goofs s/he has seen around.
>>
@TEEJEY

Yeah Quran can make this world a better place with law and order prevailing. In early 19th century the Americans wanted to ban alcohol, but with all the money and might it could not enforce this law, and after a serious disease out break, the president decided to call off the crack down.
Albeit! 1400 years ago in Saudi Arabia, when it was reveled that alcohol is prohibited; it only took hours for the law to be obeyed, without coercion or intimidation. Equally the current mob justice seen in Kenya would just be eliminated, HIV reduced, robbery going down, just on the introduction of Hudud Law or Quranic Law or Allah Law.
So if wishes were horses, I would prefer Quranic Law to the one we have in this world. The Hague could be using Quran as a reference and will see how the World will change.