[Prankster]

>Four guys tried to detonate bombs in the London underground two weeks after 7/7 last year.
>They failed to explode and were all later captured;
>two were Eritreans, one was Ethiopian and one was a Somali.

Still nobody has a case of an African who HAS, i notice you used the word TRIED.


Ignorance is no defence, if you have never heard an African of the origin of countries you have mentioned disassociating himself with Africans as in from other African parts say the South.If you go ahead and argue that there are say Africans from Mauritius that look similar to them. The last line of defence they unleash is the HAIR type.
Please you know what i am talking about.

I just wonder what makes those Africans different in that they are not brainwashed, criminal or do not misinterpret issues.This were the prime reasons i am availed for a person wanting to blow himself and others on the basis of Especially Religion, doesnt matter what religion.

[Prankster]

>maybe the scarcity of african suicide bombers has something with the fact that suicide is one of the biggest taboos
>for many indigenous african societies. but tradition is eroding with time...

If it has to do with tradition /indigenous society, then we should pray that tradition does not erode any further, we got rampant homosexuality with it's related problems at our door,already we dont need more criminal, brainwashed and misinterpreting youth.
However we should be selective about traditions keep what good we had and leave the bad. I am talking of stuff like female circumscision that has been proved to be fatal to young girls and say things like Maasai men killing lions as passage rights since it has a negative effect on our Wildlife and the subsequent revenue.


"When a man cannot deceive himself chances are against his being able to deceive other people"- Yeah

[Zelda]

>Ignorance is no defence, if you have never heard an African of
>the origin of countries you have mentioned disassociating
>himself with Africans as in from other African parts say the
>South.If you go ahead and argue that there are say Africans
>from Mauritius that look similar to them. The last line of
>defence they unleash is the HAIR type.
>Please you know what i am talking about.
>
>I just wonder what makes those Africans different in that they
>are not brainwashed, criminal or do not misinterpret
>issues.This were the prime reasons i am availed for a person
>wanting to blow himself and others on the basis of Especially
>Religion, doesnt matter what religion.

@ Prankster: Africans are no angels. What happened in Rwanda was ugly: a perfect example of ppl being brainwashed into thinking that by killing their cousins/ brothers, they were fighting for the cause of their tribe.
In Liberia, you had little kids high on drugs hacking off the hands and legs of innocents, all in the name of fighting a war.
In Uganda, there was Kony, putting out eyes, amputating limbs, forcing young kids into war, inspiring the rape of little girls, all in the name of some religious message.

Maybe these ppl did not blow themselves up with bombs together with their victims, but the damage they caused is just as real, and irreparable; perhaps even more large-scale. And it could be argued that they do commit spiritual suicide by their very acts. Those kids who rape and amputate when high on drugs are surely psychologically messed up. By virtue of their violent lifestyles, these people put their own lives in danger, so in some ways they are committing suicide (indirectly). Think about it.

You know, maybe, for Africans, the question is just access to the funding, the right people, the know-how, and the technology. Guns and pangas are much cheaper than explosives. And you don't require as much know how and planning to use them.

[Prankster]

@ Prankster: Africans are no angels. What happened in Rwanda was ugly: a perfect example of ppl being brainwashed into thinking that by killing their cousins/ brothers, they were fighting for the cause of their tribe.
In Liberia, you had little kids high on drugs hacking off the hands and legs of innocents, all in the name of fighting a war.
In Uganda, there was Kony, putting out eyes, amputating limbs, forcing young kids into war, inspiring the rape of little girls, all in the name of some religious message.

Maybe these ppl did not blow themselves up with bombs together with their victims, but the damage they caused is just as real, and irreparable; perhaps even more large-scale. And it could be argued that they do commit spiritual suicide by their very acts. Those kids who rape and amputate when high on drugs are surely psychologically messed up. By virtue of their violent lifestyles, these people put their own lives in danger, so in some ways they are committing suicide (indirectly). Think about it.

You know, maybe, for Africans, the question is just access to the funding, the right people, the know-how, and the technology. Guns and pangas are much cheaper than explosives. And you don't require as much know how and planning to use them.



I did not in any way insinuate that Africans are Angels i hope.
I know that in Africa there have happened most brutal act humanity can carry out against itself.
Rwanda was one real bad case, i makes one nearly ashamed of being African,they had tribal issues and such scenarios are repeated all over the world. Peole are fighting for resources, power etc depending on what a society considers valuable to them and at stake.
I am not sure about this neither am i an authority on world conflicts-i guess we have Separists in Spain, there an issue in Ireland and all involve violence, there Oromo vs. some tribe at the Kenya Ethiopina border, then there is say Karamajong and some other Ugandan tribe.
Kony is another one using religion to hurt others, though his group claims marginalisation of the North etc etc.

When it comes to a belief say Buddhist, Christianity, Islam, Hinduisim, i think this are INTERNATIONAL they trnscend tribal boundaries and are uniform to a certain extent say Lego Maria may be christian and so may be Catholics and othordox. Sunni,Shia and Wahabi Islam or Hindus in Kenya and India practicing the same Hindu etc etc, Shikism in Kenya and say Brazil.

Now in light of this Internationalism, why do the Africans stand out when it comes to Brainwashing, and Misintepretation in respect to Suicide bombing in particular.
I am sure you and I support my friend that this is the case(brainwash).
Can you then find a reason to explain this?

>You know, maybe, for Africans, the question is just access to the >funding, the right people, the know-how, and the technology. Guns and >pangas are much cheaper than explosives.
>And you don't require as much know how and planning to use them.

I don't think so Zelda. There are real cheap bombs that can take away yours or my life and say two others around us if we tried , but we are here dicussing this.
Africans and schemming do not underestimate, i guess guys have time for that and lots. I was reading an article about how a West African guy saves for like a year spends time eluding border patrols, pick-up and camels ride, in Morroco and Libya to get on a boat to spain.
He makes it there and still hs plan B. What he will do say etc etc untill he lives there. Then re-establishes contact with family etc and sends cash. This takes kitu 2-3 years from initial saving for the trip to sending money home.

[Zelda]

>I did not in any way insinuate that Africans are Angels i
>hope.

Nah. You didn't insinuate any such thing. That's just the way I talk. :) Pole for any misunderstanding.
As you must have by now figured out, napenda to look at things below the surface. To me, the same self-destructive drive that makes someone pump himself with drugs and shoot a young girl in the head is similar to that one of a man who walks into a shopping mall and detonates the explosives strapped to himself. What I'm trying to say is that, given the conditions, Africans are just as self-destructive as everyone else, even though they choose different methods.

Once in a while, we read in the news a story about some Kenyan man who went on a killing spree, killing his family and then committing suicide, or about a woman who kills her kids and commits suicide. Is that something similar?


>When it comes to a belief say Buddhist, Christianity, Islam,
>Hinduisim, i think this are INTERNATIONAL they trnscend tribal
>boundaries and are uniform to a certain extent say Lego Maria
>may be christian and so may be Catholics and othordox.
>Sunni,Shia and Wahabi Islam or Hindus in Kenya and India
>practicing the same Hindu etc etc, Shikism in Kenya and say
>Brazil. Now in light of this Internationalism, why do the Africans
>stand out when it comes to Brainwashing, and Misintepretation
>in respect to Suicide bombing in particular.
>I am sure you and I support my friend that this is the
>case(brainwash). Can you then find a reason to explain this?

No, I can't find a reason to explain this. Kwangu, this is simply one of those issues which I cannot understand because I have never been driven to do such a thing. The most I can do is speculate (as I am doing here), but truthfully, I can't understand. I was fortunate enough to not grow up in a war-torn country, so I don't know what it's like to live day-by-day, knowing death is around the corner. I don't know what it's like to live among people who believe in self-martyrdom for a cause. I can only guess at the depths of despair that one must fall to in order to start contemplating suicide of any kind.

>I don't think so Zelda. There are real cheap bombs that can
>take away yours or my life and say two others around us if we
>tried , but we are here dicussing this.
>Africans and schemming do not underestimate, i guess guys have
>time for that and lots.

Nakuulizaje: How many Africans actually truly identify themselves deep down inside with these religions? Sometimes it seems to me that many of us are only Christians or Muslims on the surface. I may be wrong, of course. But I think that, for many ppl here, the first group they identify with is tribe or race, not religion. So maybe ppl would not put their lives on the line in the name of religion, but they would do so in the name of tribe. Others have sold their souls to the dollar, so they'd do anything for money (e.g. those stunts you describe illegal immigrants pulling).

Maybe you should change your line of questioning. Ask yourself why it is that ppl choose suicide bombing to make their point. What is it about using a bomb and taking one's own life? Is it because the violence is spectacular and the most extreme thing imagineable? What sort of an 'enemy' is the suicide bomb used against? Seems to me that ppl who use suicide bombs are trying to make a point about an enemy who is much more powerful than them. If you can figure out what is common among suicide bombers of different cultures and religions, maybe you can guess what makes other groups reject that form of violence.

I'm convinced that developing the type of bombs these ppl use requires certain technological know-how/ training (kuhakikisha kwamba the bomb doesn't explode inadvertently). And whatever is at stake for them has to be something so huge that there is money being poured into the cause.

[Prankster]

>Nakuulizaje: How many Africans actually truly identify themselves deep down inside with these religions?
> Sometimes it seems to me that many of us are only Christians or Muslims on the surface. I may be wrong, of course.
>But I think that, for many ppl here, the first group they identify with is tribe or race, not religion.
>So maybe ppl would not put their lives on the line in the name of religion, but they would do so in the name of tribe.
>Others have sold their souls to the dollar,
>so they'd do anything for money (e.g. those stunts you describe illegal immigrants pulling).

Since we both now agree that those who do such bizzare acts are in fact bizzare i can assume me and you see things from the same angle.

As for if AFRICANS truly identify with the religions they are, as i said before maybe their difference in not being brainwashed lies in true identification, i mean it's the right thing, right!If ONE among all people of an International religion so to speak are perfect in terms of interpretation ,then i guess they truly identify.(Punctuation usiulize).The right interpretation would mean that there is maybe need to put your life on the line but not need to to put other peoples, au sio.
Anyway, i have still not got an incident where it happened. I am asking you tena, ni wapi Mafrika alijilipua na kirende ama solo?
This has nothing to do with sijui philosophy au kizungu mob, it's just a matter of pointing it out.

Reasons given so far;
(a)This kind of thing takes planning and resources they may not have.
(b)This people are lovers of life.
(c)Suicide is an abomination in African indigenous society.
(d) Lack of enough identification with the religions they profess.
(e)They are not easily brainwashed and do good research on matters
religion.
(f)Few and scattered buildings and lack of provocative crowds,,,
Last two are mine will be refined as i get more feedback.Changieni.

[Zelda]

>(e)They are not easily brainwashed and do good research on
>matters religion.

do you remember this?
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/uganda_004.htm

[Prankster]

>Cult members locked themselves in the chapel early Friday and nailed doors and windows closed, then sang for a few hours before
>dousing themselves in gasoline and paraffin and setting
>themselves ablaze, said David Sseppuuya,
>deputy editor-in-chief of the government-owned New Vision newspaper, quoting investigators.
>''According to an eyewitness on the site, they came
> around and bid farewell to the people and they heard
>that the Virgin Mary would appear on Friday, so they did
>expect to die on Friday,'' Sseppuuya said.


This is now a closer example to what i was looking for, thanks Zelda but not quiet.

Prankster is mad at himself/others or Pranksters believes that if HE dies now he will become an Angel,immortal or even a bird and Prankster wants to become a bird.Prankster may/maynot think it the best case for everyone but is sure is the case if he/they died today.

According to the data collected on the thread, so far;

(a)Prankster goes to a mountain top, open field or desert and blows himself- Prankster is most likely AFRICAN.
(b)Prankster looks for a crowded area, market, school or mall and blows himself-Prankster is mostlike NOT AFRICAN.

Hii ni hypothesis pekee yake.
Lets continue to build a case for or against why this AFRICANS

AFRICANS are also known for whatever reason to jump out of buildings and shoot themselves and family as well as take poison all this are suicides.This weakens the point-IT IS AGAINST AFRICAN INDIGENOUS BELIEF/TRADITION na hio tunatoa from now.

[Zelda]

>Still nobody has a case of an African who HAS, i notice you used >the word TRIED.

aii yawa, prankster! if the AFRICAN men actually had explosives and were going to detonate them, then the point is proven. the debate/ inquiry can end now. whether they merely tried or succeeded, the intent was there, and the explosive devices were there (i.e. if we are to believe the british authorities).

>Ignorance is no defence, if you have never heard an African of the >origin of countries you have mentioned disassociating himself with >Africans as in from other African parts say the South.If you go >ahead and argue that there are say Africans from Mauritius that >look similar to them. The last line of defence they unleash is the >HAIR type. Please you know what i am talking about.

personally, i think using hair texture to categorize people by ethnic or cultural group is weak. and i've never actually heard anyone from the horn of africa region claim to be "non-african" (although i have heard a number of kenyans make this complaint). so it doesn't make sense to generalize about people's attitudes. being "african" is complex. it's not just about the shape of the nose, the skin colour or the texture of the hair, and it's not just about being bantu or nilotic.

>According to the data collected on the thread, so far;
>(a)Prankster goes to a mountain top, open field or desert and
>blows himself- Prankster is most likely AFRICAN.
>(b)Prankster looks for a crowded area, market, school or mall
>and blows himself-Prankster is mostlike NOT AFRICAN.
>Hii ni hypothesis pekee yake.

let's polish that hypothesis kidogo: you still haven't given your opinion on the case of people who slaughter their families and then commit suicide.

[Prankster]

>I am made to understand by a good friend that
>those people who bomb themselves and others in
>the name of religion are either criminal or have
>misinterpreted the religion or are brainwashed.

I am not sure if those peole kill their family and friends in the name of religion. I am talking of some one walking up to a crowd and blowing himself up to mae a religious statement is considered generally INSANE by the rest of the world, even by the proponents of the very religion,usually they are cursed and disowned as bad (brainwashed)elements, but where are the Africans in this business.

About those guys in the subway,even if you argue they were African INTENTION just as Prankster wanted to be a space ship pilot, i still have the intention.Or is intention African, they say procrastination is what is killing the Black man forget Ozone layer or cattle rustling.








"When a man cannot deceive himself chances are against his being able to deceive other people"- Yeah