Is your faith real or bogus?

teejay · (#1 (**permalink**))

With regards to the ongoing discussion on faith vs commandments I have taken it upon myself to initiate this topic after a look up from the bible; all this effort in a bid to enlighten ourselves . As you all are aware, some comrades have continued to rubbish some sections of the bible while exalting other portions. This is my take after this research.

We begin by exploring Faith. What is the definition of faith? Hebrews 11:1, "What is faith? Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."

Jesus is the source of faith.

Luke 17:5. "And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.'" Romans 10:17, says, "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

So the we see that that does not or ignores the word of God is unworthy of faith. How do we know this? In the following verse Paul writes about Israels unwillingness to hearken unto Gods words. And He quotes from OT; HEB 10:18-21

But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Real faith is believing in what Christ has done for us. Romans 5:1, "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

At one time Christs Mother and His brothers came looking for him and upon getting their message replied by saying That his kin are those who obey his words/commands (whichever version you are reading) It is through the word that we spiritually sip digest.
Can a person really disregard the same word that is supposed to lead them to the Christ? I think not.

Faith is trusting God in everything. Hebrews 10:38. "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

It is this faith Guided Martin Luther during the Protestant reformation era. But he made clear that the bible and bible (word of God) only was the basis of faith. Therefore to say that you have faith while dismissing other contents of the bible is absolute nonsense.

Weak faith can become strong faith with God's help. Mark 9:24. "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief!

There has been lots of insinuations that the commandments were only meant for Israelites. In my view, it is sheer lack of proper reading that leads us to make such false assumptions. It is clearly recorded that even before Moses was summoned atop Sinai, the commandments had existed. To be precise they had been there since Genesis when the foundations of the earth were laid. The fact Cain killed his brother and God did not take it lightly affirms this. Jewish Nation was not present at the time.

Again when the Israelites were camped at the desert for months and they bullied Moses for food. God gave them Manna. This they collected for 6 days and on the sixth day there came a double portion so they wont go out on Sabbath but rest in honor of Sabbath day. Meaning that even before this time the Sabbath had always existed.

It would be absolutely ridiculous for God to say one thing here and do another thing altogether. To make sure that He kept us reminded of the commandments He has again talked prophetically about them and how they will be trampled upon in the last days. Of course He does send out a solemn warning to all mankind. One of its kind. That has never before been uttered, but there in the book of revelation. The third angel in divine pleading disseminates the message to us.

REV 14:9-11 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Verse 12 asserts that great patience is paramount of those who keep these commandments and the faith ! It will be a time of trouble such as never been seen before and those who uphold the commandments and have faith in God will be afflicted, vexed, but in the end they shall be victorious. So the two are joined at the hips. Preference of one over the other is vain worship, as such bogus faith!

My conclusion therefore is that in the commandments is embodied the same principle that is revealed in the gospel. Then the law points out mans duty and shows him his guilt. Then to Christ he must look for pardon and for power to do what the law enjoins.

KEMINOKANA · (#2 (**permalink**))

teejay,

You took the project outta my hands. I've also been compiling explicit verses in the New Testament(seeing the OT is obsolete as per reggie) where the commandments are referred to.

Now, when the disciples asked him, what is the greatest commandment? Jesus answered, love God with all your soul, with all your heart. The second greatest commandment he proceeded was, love your neighbor as much as you love yourself. These two he said are the greatest commandments. Clearly Jesus is referring to all ten commandments with 1-4 being about human-God relations, and 5-10 being human-human relations.

I dont know where others find it to say they are not relevant or the OT is obsolete. I am a sinner myself, but am not gon run around the bible looking for verses to exonerate my behavior.

People talk about faith and not commandments. But I say faith bila works is as good as dead. The two are inseparable for one not to be a pharisee. It is like saying you are married when you dont have a wife yet.

teejay · (#3 (**permalink**))

And Kemi just to imagin that a person could so rubbish such beautiful teaching defeats the purpose for which the teaching is meant.

Thank you KEMI

milanya · (#4 (**permalink**))

I don't know if a lot of people realize that the basic premise that spurned the growth of the protestant movement is that we are saved by faith alone, apart from works, apart from the law. Some people I've talked to think that the protestant movement was about disputing Catholic tradition - which to an extent it was, but I think the biggest issue that Martin luther grappled with was the issue of Sola Fide. Correct me if I have my wires crossed.

KEMINOKANA · (#5 (**permalink**))

Martin Luther king had faith and it was evident from his works hence the protestant movement. Otherwise why did he revolt over traditions if traditions didnt matter? It is becoz the traditions mattered and they contradicted biblical teachings.

As I said before, you cant claim to be married when you dont have a spouse. And you cant deny to be married when you have a spouse. You cant light a lamp and place it under the table much as you cant have a tasteless salt. Faith, and I'll repeat faith will be evident from one's actions and one's actions represent one's inner soul. You must be driving if you are driving. You must be sleeping if you are sleeping. You cant claim to have faith when you hate your brother. You cant claim to have faith in God while kneeling before Mary or Jesus' statue ati unaomba. That's contradictory.

Plus, Milanya I want you to comment on the several verses that have specifically demanded that we keep the commandments. In fact, since you guys said the old testament is obsolete, we have done you 'justice' by using verses from the new testament. This is why I say Atlian is better than most of us. At least for him, he rejects the bible as a whole. But you guys pick pick verses without even trying to understand the context those verses came into being.

When the rich young man asked Jesus what he'd do to inherit heaven, Jesus said, keep the commandments. Milanya I want you to be explicit and say if Jesus was drunk, lying or what because if we are saved apart from the law(commandments), he wouldnt have said that. And when I say keep the commandments, am not talking about the pharisee style, am talking about truly keeping the commandments.

TeamManager · (#6 (**permalink**))

A few useful links

Why the 1st day of the week?
http://www.bible.ca/7-sunday-1st-day.htm

History of the 1st day worship
http://www.bible.ca/7-history-sabbath.htm

Sabbath nailed to the Cross
http://www.bible.ca/7-sabbath.htm

10 commandments abolished today
http://www.bible.ca/7-10-commandments.htm

80 question sabbatarians dont like being asked
http://www.bible.ca/7-sabbath-questions.htm

How sabbatarians twist the Bible
http://www.bible.ca/7-twist.htm

SDA church controvesy
http://www.bible.ca/7-sda.htm

White lies
http://www.bible.ca/7-plagiarism.htm

Formal debates - Saturday/sunday
http://www.bible.ca/7-debates.htm

milanya · (#7 (**permalink**))

Kemi, I just talked about protestanism. I didn't say where I stand so don't attack me. I basically believe we need faith + deeds. after all:

James 2:
17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

petermaumau · (#8 (**permalink**))

If one wants to follow all the commandments as prescribed by the old testament, then it is also worthwhile to note that the sacrifices also count.. The whole book of the law actaully is valid for you..
But there is a problem ,where are you going to sacrifice seeing as if you do not have a temple..

Anyway,It is by faith alone...
Jesus siad so,Paul said so, and I am also there...
Do not let the sabbath be a stumbling block to your faith..Since we are not judged by it..try Colosiians 2 I guess..

Christ is all you need...
or Galatians 3 may seem unpalatable..
The law has not passed, but in christ we are new creatures...
We are on the same side..

teejay · (#9 (**permalink**))

>If one wants to follow all the commandments as prescribed by
>the old testament, then it is also worthwhile to note that the
>sacrifices also count.. The whole book of the law actaully is
>valid for you..
>But there is a problem ,where are you going to sacrifice
>seeing as if you do not have a temple..
>
>Anyway,It is by faith alone...
>Jesus siad so,Paul said so, and I am also there...
>Do not let the sabbath be a stumbling block to your
>faith..Since we are not judged by it..try Colosiians 2 I
>guess..
>
>Christ is all you need...
>or Galatians 3 may seem unpalatable..
>The law has not passed, but in christ we are new creatures...
>We are on the same side..

The problem is much bigger than I thought!

KEMINOKANA · (#10 (**permalink**))

Teejay,

The problem is certainly bigger. Let the false prophets roam. The truth will finally prevail.