[petermaumau]

In Leviticus the Israelites are commanded not to eat certain things among other laws. But the one which may attract most attention is the one about eating pigs. Is it all right for Christians to eat Pig meat? And if so, why then is it expressly banned in Leviticus 11:7 ?
For starters, if it is still illegal to eat swine meat, then what business do we have eating camel meat, or even the exotic sea food as they do not fall into God’s command to us. And yes, why not also follow to do all the things commanded in Leviticus and while still at it, I guess just do the whole law.
But as much as there is no denying there was such a command, it is also worthwhile to notice that it was addressed to the Israelites who were on the way to their promised land. God gave his chosen people a law. And for sure ,as Jesus did re-affirm ,the law shall not be changed though heaven and earth pass away. Then it seems many Christians have broken the commandments and are perpetually at sin, and are headed for hades!!!.
The only reason that we can still claim righteousness as believers in Christ is if we are a different nation altogether and under a new covenant. For sure we are. Before even the law was, God did meet Abraham and made him promises. God was pleased that Abraham believed him so much that He was willing to give up his only son, knowing that God would make a way if indeed He killed Isaac.
Abraham believed God and God was so pleased with him that He gave him exceedingly great promises. In the bible, in Genesis 22; 17-19 God gives Abraham promises when he says: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
So we see, that without doing the works of the law, as was prescribed by Moses 430 years later, Abraham was found righteous in God’s eyes. Abraham was counted righteous because he believed God, and had faith in Him and not by any works of the law that He did, or did not do. Abraham was also promised that in Him shall all nations be blessed, and not only the Israelites to whom were given the Law.
If we then be blessed under God through Abraham then we also have to recognize that the blessing would come through a seed,as it is written. And it was not written through Seeds, but through one, a seed. And that seed, if you are a Christian we believe is Christ. And as it was that Abraham pleased God By believing In God, even they who are acceptable in God’s eyes also get to him by faith and not in the works of the law. If the righteousness were of the law then for sure not all nations would be blessed, since the law was only addressed to the Israelites. Jerusalem is where the temple was and all those who did not worship there were counted transgressors and yet they were not even allowed to worship there.
So then it has to be of faith so that this righteousness of God might be available to all and not only those who were given the law. And if faith, then it is no longer under the law, but a new way. So then is the law wrong ? Indeed, the law is good and just and Holy, and yes-unchangeable As Paul says in. But even those who were addressed to barely kept it. In fact but for the times of Moses, and the brief moments under David and under Good Kings Of Judah such as Josiah and Hezekiah, the law was all but Ignored. And since God had promised in Deuteronomy 28 -29, through Moses, as He addressed the children of Israel while they were still in the land of Moab, that if they did not obey all the things He had told them, he would severely punish them, though He loved them. And indeed God kept his word, and the prophets were sent to try and convince them to change their ways before he sent a worse thing. But they did not, and indeed, could not, so that God destroyed them under the Babylonians and the Assyrians. But even that could not save them. In fact Isaiah for the Israelites Lamented in Isaiah 64:6-7 that But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is none that calleth upon thy name, which stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. The law was good, but impossible through our flesh, it was needful that a new way be revealed since if righteousness were by the law, no one can please God. In Romans 7:18 Paul laments the way that we cannot control our own flesh when he says: “For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.”
For indeed our flesh fights us. When we seek to do good, find ourselves doing that which is evil. Who surely can control this Body so as to fulfill the righteousness, which is by the law, I say, and the bible re affirms, none.
Therefore the law is good and holy and just, but by our way we cannot do it. Indeed Paul says that the Law was to conclude all under sin so that in the eyes of God, both Jews and Gentiles are sinners. We have all fallen short of the Glory of God.
And so when the fullness of times came, at the time appointed, God revealed a new way which was not really new, but was hidden until time. It was of Old since also Abraham had obtained righteousness by it, by faith.
God so loved the world that He gave His one and only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved. Those who believe in him shall not be condemned, but those who believe not are condemned already.
So it is, as God concluded Abraham righteous through faith, those who believe in His Son Jesus Christ are also counted righteous. And therefore is no longer dependant on the laws for justification but on the faith in, and on Jesus Christ. And this is all by God’s grace who loved us so much as to give us this faith.
If we are under grace then we are no longer under the law, but have obtained life through Jesus Christ. And as Christ died to the law, while still under the law, for He was a Jew, we also died with Him,and were also raised up together with Him . And so we also died to the law ,as a married woman is freed from her husband by death, so we are also free in Christ. We are no longer under the Law,but now in Christ we are to serve in love one to another. So since the Same God made the Pigs as He did the camels and Goats, we are free to eat anything…Even the filthy swine ,which are an abomination to those who are under the law ,as it is written in Isiah 65:4 ……..Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;…………………..

[teejay]

I agree with you on the law, but do you know what law you are refering to?

Do not dismiss the law wholesome. Do not be like those teachers who think that only a small portion of that book Bible is important because to seem to support their doings. You have quoted Paul extensively and yet you know not why Paul is saying what he does.

This man is a pharisee turn christian. Having met Christ he begins to see thngs in a different manner and not legalistic.

There is a reason why God said that people should not feast on certain animals.

[reggie_woic]

{peterkamau, a little spacing never harmed anyone}

[milanya]

Isn't there a verse in the new testament that says it is what comes out of a man that makes him unclean and not what goes into him?

[teejay]

>Isn't there a verse in the new testament that says it is what
>comes out of a man that makes him unclean and not what goes
>into him?

When we talk about cleanliness being next to Godliness then, what actually are we referring to? Spiritual of Physical cleanliness?

Now Malinya what you say is very true. There indeed exists such a verse, but the challenge lies in the manner in which you interpret the phrase. But as I have always said. It is important to look at what time, to whom, and why some things are done and said in a certain manner in the bible.

I think you want to say that this phrase breaks loose all the biblical halts and frees us into unthoughful foolish feasting of everything that can go down our mouth!

A careful reading will actually refute your interpretation of that phrase. I suggest you start by asking why Christ calls the Pharisees Hypocrites. While the Pharisees had over the years corrupted the laws with their own additions they had lost the sight of spiritual aspect of the law and concentrated on physical matters only. Spiritual and physical cleanliness goes hand in hand but when one is upheld and the other is trashed, it becomes meaningless. The pharisees having lost the spiritual aspect of cleanliness sought to disapprove of eating without washing of one’s hands and Christ told them off.

Again here we will have to look at washing of hands. Did the disciples really ate without washing their hands? Ancient Jewish rites required that when just about to eat a person had to wash thoroughly. In today’s world one would rollup the sleeves of their clothes in readiness for the wash. The wash would go up to, say, almost the armpits and some in cases even the legs. Am sure the disciples washed their hands but just the way we do it these days (the palm of you hands) and that did not certainly satisfy their detractors. To such bogus scrutiny came the answer “ It is not what goes into a person that makes them unclean but what comes out of the person.”

That phrase therefore does not relate to food whatsoever, but to spiritual dwarfness of the Pharisees. It neither opens the door for flesh eaters to consume everything called meat.

[petermaumau]

A little space would help for sure Reggie Voice..
But Teejay.. What I hope Came accross is that the law does not to apply to us, to fulfil,since that CHrist did..Biut now we are under grace, in christ and christ is all we need, just look at Colosians 2,it was a really freeing chapter for me..Even observation of the sabbath is not a must..
I know A few SDAs who may disagree...

[teejay]

>
>A little space would help for sure Reggie Voice..
>But Teejay.. What I hope Came accross is that the law does not
>to apply to us, to fulfil,since that CHrist did..Biut now we
>are under grace, in christ and christ is all we need, just
>look at Colosians 2,it was a really freeing chapter for
>me..Even observation of the sabbath is not a must..
>I know A few SDAs who may disagree...

Leave the SDAs out the Sabbath question Peter. They did not right the bible neither. The bible is God’s word and very word and phrase in it is meant for our own growth.

This type of reading you are doing is what I personally would like to discourage Christians from doing. That you come across one verse or a chapter and hold on to it dearly as if there are no other books appearing in that bible. Surely you people must know better that a person who draws his information from various sources is better informed. The bible has 66 books I don’t see why some us must only concentrate on Paul and a few verses that seem to support your actions as a way out.

None of you is looking at the last book of the bible and what it says about the remnants of the latter day Church. The prophetic pen could not have been more precise and concise to bring to our attention that revelation of the Ark of the covenant in the heavenly sanctuary
REV 11:19: And the TEMPLE OF GOD WAS OPENED IN HEAVEN, and there was seen in his temple the ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

What is it that was laid in the Ark? A reading through the OT will tell you that it was the 10 commandments. An intelligent student of the bible will see that in the very bosom of these commandments is inscribed the command ..
“Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.” Ex: 20:8-11

The word Remember in itself is an emphasis to forgetful man to observe this day.

And what does the bible say about the latter day followers of the Lord?

John while in the Island of Patmos in the Mediterranean is shown what must happen to them because of their stand in the Lord.

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the REMNANT OF HER SEED, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.” REV:12:17
Again “The Commandments” is conspicuous in this verse.

Peter, you are Christian but I think you are yet to understand why you are one. Do you know what Judgment is all about? Or you have been taught that immediately a person dies he goes to heaven so much that you have forgotten that Judgment must precede that tour. Logic demands that for Judgment commence there has to be laid down rules which are the are scales upon which we are weighed. If found wanting …..
If you say that some rules can be bent because you offend them it means that you are acting God. Are you?

Let nobody cheat you that you don’t have to follow the Sabbath command. That will be tantamount saying that it was Useless for Christ to impart the words of the three angels to John

ANGEL 1 Re: 14:6: And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
REV: 14:7: Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

ANGEL 2 REV: 14:8: And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

ANGEL 3 REV: 14:9: And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Re: 14:10: The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Babylon is a symbol used to represent an anti God Kingdom. She is a fornicator because she has gone into bed with earthly rulers to gain their favour in pushing on her evil agendas (apostasy of the Church). Remembers the Church reign or Terror in the dark ages. Her heinous ideals were effected by worldly rulers who vexed anti popes. Once again Such terror must come back to haunt the latter church who were are told are those that “KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.” REV:12:17


The beast is a Kingdom and her mark is Sunday worship. (REV 13:18). We all know that it was the Catholic Church that changed Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, a fact, which she dares not deny. And you people like to cheat yourselves that it was akina Peter and Paul who changed it. His IMAGE is the formation of a Joint UNION BETWEEN CHRISTIAN PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS IN 1994. This Union will impress upon the US government to impose her own rules over the universe and thus she will have made an image of the first beast, which was the catholic church of the earlier centuries (a political organization dressed in ecclesiastical body). All the Mainstream Protestant Churches in America are now under the Roman Catholic Jesuits. Alberto Riviera (an Ex Jesuit priest in the book “IS ALBERTO FOR REAL,” says that a sign was to be given to all the Jesuits worldwide, of the take over. The sign was to be when a US president was to be sworn in facing an obelix!

When Ronald Regan came took oath of office he was sworn in facing the monument in the open! That was the subtle sign. The Jesuits are like a bad Virus that runs in the blood streams of a person. That is exactly what they have done in the US systems. They are the same people who engineered that sign.

I stop there for now Peter but you had better know that the Sabbath you so disregard is embedded in God’s lasting commandments. Know if you are not with God then you are with Man’s Sunday Sabbath!
Keep also in mind that not all the only the ceremonial laws have no use now That Christ fulfilled them. There no need for example of animal sacrifices to atone for our sins, and etc.

[teejay]

>
>A little space would help for sure Reggie Voice..
>But Teejay.. What I hope Came accross is that the law does not
>to apply to us, to fulfil,since that CHrist did..Biut now we
>are under grace, in christ and christ is all we need, just
>look at Colosians 2,it was a really freeing chapter for
>me..Even observation of the sabbath is not a must..
>I know A few SDAs who may disagree...

How is he going to Judge you in the end if there is no law?
Every house has rules that govern it and that is why there is a sense of belonging. If you therefore say that the laws of that house dont apply to you then it means you are not a member. It also means you are not a child of God. Becasue you have created your own rules.

where I come from they say "isemako mandi opong'o lweti, dar!" That is when you are disobedient. ( TranL leave the house if you think that your balls have outgrown cup of you palms! si wewe dume tosha)

Find out which laws dont apply, because I know there are laws that dont apply.

[petermaumau]

Hey Tee jay
Well that is a scary criteria.. But I guess we have more important things to worry about..

What I mean is ,the laws did not change, But we did..
You know if the laws did apply you could not even appraoch God since you are obviouly not a Jew, atleast with not with Fluent Lake Language..
I read yesterday,I dont remember which verse but maybe you can help me,how that we were strangers to the commonwealth of Israel and had no hope and no God in this world..Ooh yes it is In Ephesians 2...But Jesus christ made peace having broken down the wall of partition so that you and I can be partakers of God..and of the commonwealth of saints.. The law was the wall...

Now you were changed in that when christ was crucified, he died to the law and under the law,he fulfilled the law,.,And God proclaimed that whosoever believes in Him , is made a partaker of his death and also resurection ..SO when You believe in Christ you die and are reborn..So that you are lawfully outside the law,but now the spirit of GOd through Christ is the one which enables us to live, ours was crucified, and the flesh is awaiting its end..

SO now you are not led by the flesh s an ordinary human but are led by GOd'sSpirit in You... So you are a new creature..ALl things are passed away, ..Where did you hear that,,
Anyway You Check out Galatians 3 which says that you cannot choose a part of the law you want to be under if you are going to do any of it then you are bound to do all of it..

[TeamManager]

Counted righteous because of their faith in God