[teejay]

>If god does exist the way he is defined, then it is possible
>for him to create enough water out of nowhere to flood the
>world and also get rid of that water, plus all the fossils,
>etc.

In concurrence even though you have no respect for God.

> What my beef is with that theory is why this good god
>would decide to drown all the innocent children in the world
>for the sins of the adults. What did those new borns and 2
>year old kids do to deserve dying a painful agonizing death
>through drowning? What about the good men in Australia who had
>no chance to get to the ark? Noah's ark is definitely a load
>of garbage. If you put belief and faith aside, all logic
>crushed this story to smithereens. Many of the old religions
>reported similar stories, where angry gods decided to flood
>the whole world and one good man, his family and all animals
>were saved in this magical vessel. The men who wrote the Bible
>just borrowed from that, changed the names, and the rest is
>history.

I did not know that you could so use your expensively acquired knowledge to insult your maker in that magnitude. But first of allow me to first correct you that you are not God and therefore cannot vest upon your wretched self the sole prerogative of determine who is good and who is evil.

Now Atlian between you and God who do you think can feel more pain to see people perish in their wisdomless disregard of life (God)? Have you ever created one human being? I guess no. Your have no right to direct God and those whoa have dared take your path have often ended in misery. I have for long seen you badmouth God here for 2 years now. God knows what else you have said about him prior to your being a member here. I want you to know one thing Atlian that this same God you are smearing with your droppings is the same God that has still let you breath the oxygen that any other righteous persons breath. He is the same God who has continued to see your atrocities against him rise to the highest heaven, but He in his mercy still lets you take another breath.
Enough of the sermon.

BTW your history about the bible is wanting. Moses wrote the first five books of the bible. So for one taking pride in his educational gains to researchlessly dismiss the Flood story as cut and paste article, displays utter waste and abuse of that very education you religiously pursue.

[safina]

@Teejay

Cool down,you don't have kunitusi to put ya point across,This makes me miss TM.
The bible is packed with clearly mythological fiction and superstitious practices.Rememember the nomadic Hebrews were much less civilised than the settled nations in Caanan or over Mesopotamia.So while Caanan was in Bronze age,Hebrews were still in the stone age.Therefore it is natural that their believes and the world view were based on stone age myth and superstitioins.For this reason the bible is archaic and irrational compared to the advanced writings of the contemporary Greeks of the same century.

Christians don't claim that the bible contains a rough historical account and some valuable moral lessons,they say that it's somehow divine.If there was no literal Garden of Eden(snake story) then there was no literal original sin.No need for Noah's ark,and no need for humanity to be redeemed later.

A person would be an oxymoron or certifiably insane to read "the story of Joshua stoppping the sun" and say,'this must have happened'.

Religion is an irrational complex,a computer virus in the brain.It inhibits rational,analytical and sckeptical screening.The results are superstition,paranoia,hate and violence

[safina]

I have faith Santa Claus lived in the North Pole.

[Zelda]

@safina: lol! do your questions have anything to do with your name?

>The bible is packed with clearly mythological fiction and >superstitious practices.Rememember the nomadic Hebrews were much >less civilised than the settled nations in Caanan or over >Mesopotamia.So while Caanan was in Bronze age,Hebrews were still in >the stone age.

that's true, alot of the 'civilizational' influences on the hebrews came from the mesopotamians and that they later demonized.

>Therefore it is natural that their believes and the world view were >based on stone age myth and superstitioins.For this reason the >bible is archaic and irrational compared to the advanced writings >of the contemporary Greeks of the same century.

hapa, I have to contest your claims. many of what you call biblical myths have parallels in the mythology of their 'civilised' neighbors and predecessors, and might even be traceable to them. who knows?

for example: the story of noah is remarkably similar to the babylonian epic of gilgamesh.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluge_(mythology)>

>Religion is an irrational complex,a computer virus in the brain.It >inhibits rational,analytical and sckeptical screening.The results >are superstition,paranoia,hate and violence

it might very well be true that religion is irrational. BUT that is precisely why it is valuable. there are circumstances where rational thinking and logic are of no use and instead, faith and intuition come in handy. at any rate, rational thinking has its roots in irrationality. :D

[Wantai]

>
>when they get pushed on the wall,they always pull
>small flags showing "FAITH & BELIEF".
>
>@Wantai
> long time,vipi?

nipo dadi! ;-)

[ATLian]

>@Atlian
>
>You seem to look for belief in logic, yet all I ever see in
>your posts are questions and more questions.

m4one,

I think it's the other way around. I don't look for belief in logic, I try to look for logic in the Christian beliefs. It's only natural, coz at the age we are, and at the level of education we have, we are ruled by logical things not blind beliefs in everything we do. We rationalize things out, and ignore things that do not make sense. The interesting thing is people tend to put all logic aside for the most important thing in their lives - religion. An intelligent man will rightfully question everything in his life, then give his religion a green light at all intersections where it meets rationality and logic. A believer will read that god just murdered all innocent first born male babies in Egypt, but because my Bible says that god is always good, then murdering those babies must be good. But when Herod copies god and murders all the newly born male babies in Bethlehem, then suddenly the good act now becomes a vile act. Hello, am I the only one who sees the glaring absurdity in that? I refuse to be that brainwashed. If I see any god killing innocent kids, I won't ignore it or use an extreme means of thinking to rationalize it. I'll call it what it is - cold blooded murder.



>Do you take time
>to research your questions or do you prefer to take the easy
>way out and shoot down religious belief (or otherwise) with
>your many questions.

Again you got things twisted. It's a believer who totally suspends all his curiosity, emotions, logic, etc, by taking the easy way and just blindly believing. A non-believer takes the hard way by asking the tough questions and shooting down whatever doesn't make sense, no matter how deeply ingrained it is in him. I don't just read the Bible and swallow whatever it says hook, line and sinker, I leave that to believers. I read a lot, I reasearch a lot, I read about other religions, etc. A believer obviously thinks that his religion is the only way to heaven, so they have no time to go exploring what other religions have to offer.

I hope I've come across more clearly now, coz you seem to have my msimamos twisted...

[ATLian]

>In concurrence even though you have no respect for God.

>I did not know that you could so use your expensively acquired
>knowledge to insult your maker in that magnitude

>I have for long
>seen you badmouth God here for 2 years now

>I want you to know one thing Atlian that this same God
>you are smearing with your droppings is the same God that has
>still let you breath the oxygen that any other righteous
>persons breath

Omera,

relax bwana. Chiew mondo inus kahawa! That's "wake up and smell the coffee" for those who don't understand the lingo.

Here's the nitty gritty - To disrespect or insult something, you have to believe that it exists. I do not believe in your god, in fact I do not believe any god exists, so how can you then say that I don't respect god? How can you insult or badmouth something which doesn't exist in your mind?



>But first of
>allow me to first correct you that you are not God and
>therefore cannot vest upon your wretched self the sole
>prerogative of determine who is good and who is evil.

Er - I know I'm not god, and I never said I was, so I don't understand what you are correcting.

Teejay, unlike you whose hands are tied down by the retarded Christian dogma that says you shouldn't judge others, I am free to use my mind to judge people. If I see Hitler killing 6 million Jews, I will judge him and call him an evil murderer. If I see a chic sleep with 500 men for the money, I will judge her and call her a prostitute. If I see John Doe dedicate his entire life to caring for needy oppressed children in Africa, I will judge him and call him a good man. It's not about being god, it's simple intelligence which every person should have ama they'll have a very sad life.

[ATLian]

>In concurrence even though you have no respect for God.

>I did not know that you could so use your expensively acquired
>knowledge to insult your maker in that magnitude

>I have for long
>seen you badmouth God here for 2 years now

>I want you to know one thing Atlian that this same God
>you are smearing with your droppings is the same God that has
>still let you breath the oxygen that any other righteous
>persons breath

Omera,

relax bwana. Chiew mondo inus kahawa! That's "wake up and smell the coffee" for those who don't understand the lingo.

Here's the nitty gritty - To disrespect or insult something, you have to believe that it exists. I do not believe in your god, in fact I do not believe any god exists, so how can you then say that I don't respect god? How can you insult or badmouth something which doesn't exist in your mind?




>But first of
>allow me to first correct you that you are not God and
>therefore cannot vest upon your wretched self the sole
>prerogative of determine who is good and who is evil.

Er - I know I'm not god, and I never said I was, so I don't understand what you are correcting.

Teejay, unlike you whose hands are tied down by the retarded Christian dogma that says you shouldn't judge others, I am free to use my mind to judge people. If I see Hitler killing 6 million Jews, I will judge him and call him an evil murderer. If I see a chic sleep with 500 men for the money, I will judge her and call her a prostitute. If I see John Doe dedicate his entire life to caring for needy oppressed children in Africa, I will judge him and call him a good man. It's not about being god, it's simple intelligence which every person should have ama they'll have a very sad life.

[ATLian]

>Now Atlian between you and God who do you think can feel more
>pain to see people perish in their wisdomless disregard of
>life (God)?

God cannot and does not feel pain. Plus he has known ever since what is going to happen to all of us. So for you to say that god feels pain when someone sins in 2006, when the same god has always knows that this person was going to sin is ludicrous. It's almost like watching the same movie 10,000 times and still crying at the ending.



>BTW your history about the bible is wanting. Moses wrote the
>first five books of the bible. So for one taking pride in his
>educational gains to researchlessly dismiss the Flood story as
>cut and paste article, displays utter waste and abuse of that
>very education you religiously pursue.

I've read reports that conclude that Moses could not have written those first 5 books.

Plus I've learnt through research that Noah's ark and flood is very similar to stories that appeared in Egyptian, Hindu, Chineese, Sumerian, Greek and Babylonian mythology, in text that was written way before the Bible was written. The Bible plagiarized a lot from other ancient religions, and this is but one of the stories.

Teejay, I'm sure that we can all agree that a man who gets his education from a variety of sources is more likely to be better informed than one who gets all his information from one very biased source. Why disregard that when it comes to religion? One day give those sources a chance, maybe then you'll get where we are coming from.

[teejay]

> Cool down,you don't have kunitusi to put ya point
>across,This makes me miss TM.

I am not in any way abusing you or anybody else I am just saying it openly,openly and more openly.

>The bible is packed with clearly mythological fiction
> and superstitious practices.Rememember the nomadic
>Hebrews were much less civilised than the settled
>nations in Caanan or over Mesopotamia.So while Caanan
>was in Bronze age,Hebrews were still in the stone
>age.Therefore it is natural that their believes and the
> world view were based on stone age myth and
>superstitioins.For this reason the bible is archaic and
> irrational compared to the advanced writings of the
>contemporary Greeks of the same century.

Safina just tell me what is so archaic and irrational about thou Shalt not Kill. I think you are leaping without thinking. I gather it is because you don’t read the bible that you keep unknowingly utter things beyond your imagination. You need to know that the bible itself talks about people who are superstitious and cautions against it so how then can Moses write in favor of what He God disallowed. This Greeks you talk about are people whose history is littered with idolatry of functional gods and Solomon is clearly cautioned against marrying foreign women. His disregard for the wise counsel saw him enter into idolatry through his many women.

> Christians don't claim that the bible contains a
>rough historical account and some valuable moral
>lessons,they say that it's somehow divine.If there was
>no literal Garden of Eden(snake story) then there was
>no literal original sin.No need for Noah's ark,and no
>need for humanity to be redeemed later.

And basically there would be no creation of human beings and subsequently no Safina.

> A person would be an oxymoron or certifiably insane
>to read "the story of Joshua stoppping the sun" and
>say,'this must have happened'.

I want to be an oxymoron Safina and I want to be insane just because I do not concur with your reasoning. But I tell you, it is written that a servant is not greater than His master and so if they persecute the master then the servants will be tormented in horrendous affliction. So absorbing your insults is a thing that I will never cease to welcom e.

You don't belive that Joshua halted the sun.Fine go on ahead.But because I beleive in a supreme God who is all powerful it is my faith tells me that he He can do that through those people who declare that "as for me and my house we shall serve the Lord."

> Religion is an irrational complex,a computer virus in
> the brain.It inhibits rational,analytical and sckeptical
> screening.The results are superstition,paranoia,hate and
>violence

Well true religion does exactly the opposite of what you say here. And thus said Christ that "I come not to bring peace but to saw a sword." Why? Christ message was contrary to the unbecoming character of humans and because of the original sin we humans are born with a self that yearns for sin a self that is easily entrapped by evil. And this evil cannot co exist in the same sphere as righteousness. Evil will always be violent.

In addition to this I may say that church is under evil attack and because of this there has arisen fanatism in the church that causes such persons to foster violence against any person who do not reconcile their beliefs unto the fanatical movement.

True religion is not complex but as easy as what Christ taught. To dismiss it as so only reminds me of the yoke that the Pharisees had imposed upon the poor masses of Israel yet they themselves were not subject to those impositions. Are you safina surely not playing the same part as them?