[spairo]

Of late many topics have been written mostly by Islam phobia contributors who shows a lot of hatred and disrespect to Islam and now prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)
Just for once let us think the most cruel ruler on earth, I will take Adolph Hitler, the positive thing about him is, he was a democratic elected ruler, the sick Ariel Sharon, as a Muslim I tend to dislike him for what he is doing to the Palestinians either Muslims or Christian, but as a Military guy I tend to like his prowess in this field, and many other rulers.
For group of people, I tend to have my admiration towards Catholics on how they are following the Pope as one entity, the humility was shown by Jesus is worth mentioning, equally some Christians organisation who are in war front helping people irrespective of their religion or creed, that’s wonderful.
Now my points could we just contribute for once some positive aspects of Islam as a religion and Muhammad as a prophet? Have you learn anything positive about them, please share with me/us.
Thank you in advance.

[Jibril Cessay]

Positive things to come out of Islam: Algebra, the first pin-hole camera invented by Ibn al-Haitham, Coffee first drunk by Sufi faithfuls to stay awake for prayers, Calligraphy and Rumi.

[Americanized]

I think it would be upto Moslems themselves to explain to us non-Moslems what is positive about Islam because, honestly, based on current affairs, all we see is negative. When we see Osama advocating the Killing of innocent people in the name of Allah, when we see the Taliban subjugating women and claiming it is sanctioned by the Koran, when we see a Christian convert in Afghanistan being threatened with execution for apostasy, when we see 9/11, when we see our Kenyan brothers brutally killed in 1998 while Al Qaeda gleefully claims responsibility, it is very hard to see anything positive in Islam.

All these negative depictions of Islam I would consider to be the case for the prosecution. It is now time for Moslems to present the case for the defense. I want to see the positive side of Islam. All through primary school and high school, I had Moslem friends who were among the coolest people I ever knew. They were among the best friends I have ever had and they represented the best of Islam.

I think Moderate and progressive Moslems need to take charge of Islam and present a more sober view of Islam. Under law, if you were physically part of a group that brutally murdered another person, or knew about a conspiracy to commit murder but didn't report it to the authorities,you are considered an accomplice regardless of whether you threw any punches or not. You can't say you were just hanging out with the boys. If you believe Islam is a peaceful religion, you have to come out and condemn Al Qaeda, Osama, the Taliban and any extremist version of Islam, because if you don't, then we will lump you all together as cut from the same cloth.

I think Islam's battle in the new millenium is a public relations battle. When Al Qaeda attacked the U.S. embassy in Nairobi, they killed just a dozen Americans but killed about 250 innocent Kenyans. But instead of siding with their fellow countrymen, Kenyan Moslems flowed out onto the streets in support of Osama and Al Qaeda. If nothing else, this is treason! Your country has been attacked but you are siding with the enemy.

Make your case Moslems. Does Osama represent the majority of Moslem thought or is Islam a peaceful religion?

[Americanized]

>Positive things to come out of Islam: Algebra, the first
>pin-hole camera invented by Ibn al-Haitham, Coffee first drunk
>by Sufi faithfuls to stay awake for prayers, Calligraphy and
>Rumi.

You have to distinguish between Islam and Arab/Middle Eastern culture/civilization. Algebra and coffee were not a religious concept. In the same way, we can't apportion credit to Christianity for the conept of gravity just because Isaac Newton was Christian! The Middle Eastern area has contributed a lot to science, though.

[spairo]

“In the words of Carli Fiorina, the former highly talented and visionary, CEO of Hewlett Packard, "Its architects designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its writers created thousands of stories; stories of courage, romance and magic. When other nations were afraid of ideas, this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad, Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the Magnificent. Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without the contributions (Arab mathematicians) Muslims”.

Just to answer you on the write up above. But for once can’t you think of anything positive ISLAM AND MUHAMMED contributed?

[Jibril Cessay]

U should read Ibn Warraq's essay "Debunking Edward Said: Edward Said and the Saidists: or Third World Intellectual Terrorism"

http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm

[Americanized]

>U should read Ibn Warraq's essay "Debunking Edward Said:
>Edward Said and the Saidists: or Third World Intellectual
>Terrorism"
>
>http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm


Interesting article. To put the Moslem question in a more contemporary setting, we could use the present-day African American experience as an analogy.

Just as there are Moslem who believe that there is a permanent battle between Western culture and Islam, some African Americans believe that all white people are racist.

Just as there are Moslems who have allowed this negative attitude and self-pity (the Christians and Jews are out to get us!)to permeate there everyday life, many African Americans walk around with a chip on their shoulder, blaming racism for every failure in their lives.

Just as some Moslems feel justified to commit acts of violence against their percieved enemies (Christians and Jews), some African Americans believe that by committing crime or refusing to work, prefering to live off welfare, they are getting back at Whitey for racism and slavery.

Just as the majority of Moslems have been cowed into submission and silence, choosing to allow a violent and criminal minority to define the rational and progressive majority, African Americans are afraid to succeed for fear of being accused of trying to be white.

Moderate Moslems are afraid to voice out their opinion, choosing to "go along just to get along". What these two communities have in common is rampant crime, violence, poverty, economic and social regression, self-pity and paranoia. It is time to take the exit out of this vicious cycle.

I know I make a lot of people mad in other threads when I claim that African Americans are using the race card as a crutch, an excuse for failure. I will not stay silent while black people allow negative attitudes to permanently render them as members of the lowest stratum of society. Likewise, Moslems should do the same for their own people.

[Americanized]

>“In the words of Carli Fiorina, the former highly talented
>and visionary, CEO of Hewlett Packard, "Its architects
>designed buildings that defied gravity. Its mathematicians
>created the algebra and algorithms that would enable the
>building of computers, and the creation of encryption. Its
>doctors examined the human body, and found new cures for
>disease. Its astronomers looked into the heavens, named the
>stars, and paved the way for space travel and exploration. Its
>writers created thousands of stories; stories of courage,
>romance and magic. When other nations were afraid of ideas,
>this civilization thrived on them, and kept them alive. When
>censors threatened to wipe out knowledge from past
>civilizations, this civilization kept the knowledge alive, and
>passed it on to others. While modern Western civilization
>shares many of these traits, the civilization I'm talking
>about was the Islamic world from the year 800 to 1600, which
>included the Ottoman Empire and the courts of Baghdad,
>Damascus and Cairo, and enlightened rulers like Suleiman the
>Magnificent. Although we are often unaware of our indebtedness
>to this other civilization, its gifts are very much a part of
>our heritage. The technology industry would not exist without
>the contributions (Arab mathematicians) Muslims”.
>
>Just to answer you on the write up above. But for once can’t
>you think of anything positive ISLAM AND MUHAMMED
>contributed?
>



I just need a clarification of what constitutes a "Moslem achievement", versus a "Middle Eastern/Arab achievement". Is there a direct correlation between Islam and the scientific achievement or is the fact that these advances were made by Moslems merely coincidental? I am not disputing these great achievements by Arabs/Moslems. Just seeking a definition of terms.

I do not consider the great scientific achievements of European and American scientists to be Christian achievements. I consider them to be achievements of Western culture/civilization. They have nothing to do with a little African boy attending Catholic mass in Kasipul-Kabondo!

[Coach]

spairo,
Most people here have never read the story of his life but are ready to jump to conclusions after seeing a few dodgy articles written by some intellectually dishonest people. Most would also quickly judge Islam according to OBL or any other extremist out there. There were many tyrants who were Christians, but anyone who knows about Jesus PBUH knows that they are not his followers.

[Americanized]

>spairo,
>Most people here have never read the story of his life but are
>ready to jump to conclusions after seeing a few dodgy articles
>written by some intellectually dishonest people. Most would
>also quickly judge Islam according to OBL or any other
>extremist out there. There were many tyrants who were
>Christians, but anyone who knows about Jesus PBUH knows that
>they are not his followers.


This is exaclty what we want to hear from moderate Moslems! If you could only go one more step and condemn what Osama and Al Qaeda are doing in the name of Islam then we will know that you are serious about this. Don't let Osama hijack Islam! Take Islam back!