Free will and predestiny

Msoto · (#1 (**permalink**))

Is God omniscient? Yes and I am not.
There is a difference in sentience levels and thus what he sees as "pre-destined"...I with my limited sense of perception view as free willed. I don't think If I have a lower sentience level...I can catch God off guard. And perhaps when I think I have...perhaps that was what he intended for me to interpret. For He allows all possible permutations of my limited thinking to occur. However He is aware of them all....but I as a human being am not aware of them all these limited permutations...thus for me its free-will.

If God to you is not omniscient then your sentience levels may match and thus you can see free-will and pre-destiny as separete diverging concepts.

Msoto · (#2 (**permalink**))

Why continue living if infact I will go to heaven or hell?
First as a human being you are not aware of where you will end up. You believe that your actions may constitute you going to either place...but in reality you dont know where you end up. Thus living becomes a task of exercising your free will...attempting to act as best as you see fit to end in either destination.

Because God knows where we will end up and what decisions we will make does not mean that we are also aware of those decisions and where we will end up. He is omniscient that is within His frame of understanding but beyond our frame of understanding.

When I start this thread I dont know what people will add or not add. I might end up being: happy, angered, saddened, frustrated, pleased, enlightened, sparkled, intrigued, spell-bound, amused, indifferent, joyous, humbled, ashamed, excited, elated etc. The responses of course could be all sorts...they could create mixed feelings some ambivalent some not...the responses can be of varying length of varying intensity. So many styles and type of responses....say 1 billion type of different responses and my reactions to them.....now unless I can interpret all this information then I would say living is pointless because life is predictable to me as a human being. However in reality life is not predictable at least not to us human beings with our finite but very large permutations of interactions....but to God it is but pre-destined...because He has the infinite permutations and is aware of them all.

petermaumau · (#3 (**permalink**))

Cant really pretend I understand everything You say but about predestination, it is there..that is why when you find out that out of God's grace ,and not our will we are saved.. Who can say that being born in a christian Home did not not increase his awareness of the need for faith and salvation... And we may ask if Our God is so fare why would he let someone be born and bred in rural china with hardly a hope of hearing the gospel.. It is God who is rnnign the show..Just like a director does a movie..HE chooses the star and the villian,thank the Lord If he has chosen you to know Him...
As says In Romans 9, he hardens the hearts of those he wills

reggie_woic · (#4 (**permalink**))

Predestiny and Free will cannot co-exist.

I don't think anyone knows for sure which one is valid, but i choose to believe in free will.
Thinking anything different would mean that those of us who are going to 'hell' are being led there purposely; so I refuse to believe God is a sadist.

tonk nih ti? rettut sid id.

petermaumau · (#5 (**permalink**))

well GOD SAYS IT Himself IN ROMANS 9 HOw he raised up pharaoh just for the very purpose he would harden his heart and demonstrate his power..since when does a pot ask the potmaker whats up..why did you make me this ugly..it is all done for a purpose..infact no one is saved of their own free will but all as a gift..graciously givev..
if GODkilled jesus for us,just tell me he will not throw all those who choose not to accept his gracious gift to the lake of burning fire.. If you were chosen to know you will know,if not well GOD IS GOD

mwananchi_ · (#6 (**permalink**))

I know that if you drink a whole bottle of vodo you will get drunk. You, however, make the decision to drink it or not. Just because God knows what will happen does not mean that you have no choice. You have the options and you make the choice. God knows what choice you will make (being all-knowing) but the decision is still yours. The responsibility for your life is in your hands. Don't try to put your life on auto-pilot because you think that "The Graph is Drawn".

chotadipo · (#7 (**permalink**))

>I know that if you drink a whole bottle of vodo you will get
>drunk. You, however, make the decision to drink it or not.
>Just because God knows what will happen does not mean that you
>have no choice. You have the options and you make the choice.
>God knows what choice you will make (being all-knowing) but
>the decision is still yours. The responsibility for your life
>is in your hands. Don't try to put your life on auto-pilot
>because you think that "The Graph is Drawn".

Listen to yourself. If I know what you will do in the next 2 mins, and naturally that is what you will do, because I know it, me being all knowing. Where is teh choice here?

ok ok ok, you decide after 1 min to change what you were going to do in 2mins, but since I am all knowing, i still knew that you wil change your mind at the 1min mark. Where is the choice here?

By extension, I know everything that will ever happen to you down to the minute from the day you were concieved to the day I'll call you. Where is the choice here?

KEMINOKANA · (#8 (**permalink**))

>I know that if you drink a whole bottle of vodo you will get
>drunk. You, however, make the decision to drink it or not.
>Just because God knows what will happen does not mean that you
>have no choice. You have the options and you make the choice.
>God knows what choice you will make (being all-knowing) but
>the decision is still yours. The responsibility for your life
>is in your hands. Don't try to put your life on auto-pilot
>because you think that "The Graph is Drawn".

Thanks Mwananchi for that superb response that I've been trying to convey but not as succinctly as you have. If anyone doesnt still get it from here, then there is no hope.

crazy boo · (#9 (**permalink**))

>>I know that if you drink a whole bottle of vodo you will
>get
>>drunk. You, however, make the decision to drink it or not.
>>Just because God knows what will happen does not mean that
>you
>>have no choice. You have the options and you make the
>choice.
>>God knows what choice you will make (being all-knowing) but
>>the decision is still yours. The responsibility for your
>life
>>is in your hands. Don't try to put your life on auto-pilot
>>because you think that "The Graph is Drawn".
>
>Thanks Mwananchi for that superb response that I've been
>trying to convey but not as succinctly as you have. If anyone
>doesnt still get it from here, then there is no hope.

Kemi- I was in that group of not getting a thing of the intended meaning ...aint lying :) but its true Mwananchi broke it down good.

ATLian · (#10 (**permalink**))

Mwanainchi,

I think your analogy is fallacious. Everyone knows you will get drunk if you drink a bottle of vodka. Everyone knows you will die if you jump from a 30 storey building. Everyone knows you will lose your hair if you undergo chemotherapy. Everyone knows you will have bad breath if you don't brush your teeth. etc. Those are CONSEQUENCES, not signs of omniscience, and any reasonable man can accurately predict such consequences.

There is a world of difference between knowing that a car hitting a pedestrian head-on at 200 MPH will kill the pedestrian (consequences) - and knowing what the 78th word a man will utter on June 23rd 2047 is (omniscience). You are trying to compare the two.