[teejay]

>I will not bother to offer rubuttals on your post since it
>seems you do not bother to go through topics that have been
>discussed before. This god you say created you, gave you free
>will to do as you please, then punishes you,...do I need to
>continue?

Correction Chotadipo. You are only a memeber since Member since Jan 31st 2005. Perhaps it will do you good to check your facts before typing.

The Even though God gave us independence we are still his usbjects and his laws we must not infringe.Just to ask you a question. Will you be pleased with a lawless society where evil is exalted and righteouseness is defiled?

Chotadipo would you be happy if I raped your one year old nephew in the name of freewill, or will you be overjoyed at my mentioning of my sexual prowess upon your wife? I dare you to answer in the affirmative to the above questions. As if that was no enough I do want to ask whether you would not love to lynch me in order to settle the score or you would let me go free since I was merely exercising my freewill.

[teejay]

Going through Mohammed's History, one is bound to note that this fella mingled with Jews most of the time he took his business trips on behalf of his would be wife and thus he learnt a lot about the Jewish religion Judaism at the time. Remember this was the dominant religion within Jewish circles.

Muslims themselves have admittedly stated that they wholly appreciate hallow the first five books of the Bible mainly written by Moses of old Covenant. These Books they call the TORAH. If any of you go through these books you will notice that they contain a lot dos and don’ts (laws). It is from these books that Mohammed drew the Islamic laws. Islam is Judaism by extention.

It must however be noted by ardent students of the bible that most of these laws were ceremonial except for the 10 commandments which is a copy of the original one in the Heavenly sanctuary. Now the ceremonial laws were abandoned at the time Jesus Christ died on the cross clearly signified by the scene at the temple of the curtain that was rent in twain. The temple service of atonement was ended for the ultimate blood had been shed and need for animal offerings that were signifying the coming of the messiah was now vague.

Adherents of Judaism continued to practice theses services for they did not accept Jesus and to them the messiah was yet to come. Thus they clung to the laws that were vague. These are the same laws that Muslims continue to observe. Within these laws are to be found the directives for killing deviant persons, which is the subject we are discussing.

Now since Muslims do not channel any honors to Christ they like the Pharisees of old have waxed cold their years unto the teachings of Christ which have the power to deliver and are stuck to these laws which had their fulfillment in the coming of Christ.

Christ said “you have heard that it was said that an eye for an eye, but I say unto you that whosoever slaps you turn the other check unto him”.

Indeed many of us surely remember when Jesus demanded that he who is clean be the first person to cast a rock at the Mary Magdalene. We are to look upon our own selves and determine whether our actions are acceptable before God. We cannot be entrusted with the work of dealing with souls (judging and condemning) because we are equally wanting. For the Koran to continue to ask of Muslims to lynch ex-Muslims is in bad taste and archaic and Ungodly

[spairo]

@HIM

I do agree with you, those people and equally those who were involved 9/11 were Muslims, very much true….but you should know they acted on there on volition and not on the interest of many Muslims. Islam rejects the killing of non combatant and so these suicide bombers are not following the religion fully, they are just taking some literalistic meaning of the Holy Quran.
But still with all this atrocities, this people did not attack any religious installation be it a Christian one or Jew one, they attack political and economical installation of the nations they perceive as hostile to their believe or doctrine.
See the picture portrayed by the biggest Christian nation in the world (USA). The killing of innocent people like women and children cannot make those people of Iraqi and Afghanistan at ease.
Let face it people, Islam is more tolerant than Christianity as exhibited in Palestine where they fight hand in hand to liberate there land and Egypt or even Iraq during Saddam regime.

@TEEJAY

I think you should my earlier contribution disputing the issue of Quran instructing Muslims to kill other people who commit apostasy.
Then equally know the history of Christianity and who started it? For what reason? As for the person of Jesus he left this world without knowing about the bible according to Matthew or everything written about him by Paul, Luke name it. Know that the book you believe in was not written by Jesus and was written over a century after his leaving the earth. Where else you referred Islam as an extension of Judaism…….its a pity to describe you ignorance about monotheism religions.

[ATLian]

>Just a question: How can you take a religion seriously when
>it's adherents claim their religion is a religion of peace,
>without addressing the "elephant in the room"- that is, the
>fact that the chief prophet if Islam -Mohammed- raised an army
>and attacked a city in order to establish himself as a
>prophet? Can somebody please address this issue?

Americanized,

you also aren't addressing the elephant in your room. How many times did Jehovah himself command the Israelite army to attack and destroy a city in order to establish himself as the only god? it's all over the old testament. What do you think the Christian Crusaders were doing? Why are you so hell-bent on calling out Islam for the exact same things your religion, and your god, have done? Maybe you only read the New Testament, that's the only explanation I can come up with for this.

[mzalendowakenya]

Hyporcrites...thats what i call you most of you...

Its so easy to look at differences in religion and not similarities. All Abrahamaic faiths preach love, tolerance and Monotheism....Yet followers kill each other in the name of 'GOD'

I posit that majority of the conflicts have nothing to with Religion, but human greed and callousness.....people use religion to whip up emotions, and unite people against each other...so much injustice is committed in the name of religion...when deep seated issue are packaged in the name of religion to humiliate, oppress and kill people thats wrong and we shall be better off removing religious tags on criminal acts by sadists....the list is endless...from apartheid in Israel and South Africa, to slavery, jewish holocaust,colonialism, Iraq.....etc./,...all this acts of murder are done while invoking 'GOD' and the killers then go to worship their 'GOD' having killed a neighbour, a friend, a fellow human being...sad


closer home, i have seen ordinary 'GOD' Fearing Kenyans of whatever religious or tribal affiliations, turn into Murderers when they hear the word 'mwizi'

surely is lynching a human being not the most sadistic thing? yet we watch every week as kenyans get murdered and lynched by a pack of wolves

Sort your own problems..the worlds is too big for you

You can debate all you can about religion, but every religion has demons in them

[Americanized]

>>Just a question: How can you take a religion seriously when
>>it's adherents claim their religion is a religion of peace,
>>without addressing the "elephant in the room"- that is, the
>>fact that the chief prophet if Islam -Mohammed- raised an
>army
>>and attacked a city in order to establish himself as a
>>prophet? Can somebody please address this issue?
>
>Americanized,
>
>you also aren't addressing the elephant in your room. How many
>times did Jehovah himself command the Israelite army to attack
>and destroy a city in order to establish himself as the only
>god? it's all over the old testament. What do you think the
>Christian Crusaders were doing? Why are you so hell-bent on
>calling out Islam for the exact same things your religion, and
>your god, have done? Maybe you only read the New Testament,
>that's the only explanation I can come up with for this.
>

Jesus came to establish a new order, so in effect, Christianity started with Jesus. If you can find a place in the bible where Jesus advocated the murder of innocents to make a theological point, bring it up so we can discuss it openly.

[ATLian]

>Jesus came to establish a new order, so in effect,
>Christianity started with Jesus. If you can find a place in
>the bible where Jesus advocated the murder of innocents to
>make a theological point, bring it up so we can discuss it
>openly.

Christians believe that Jesus is god. Therefore all commandments made by god in the Old Testament were also made by Jesus, and all innocents murdered by god can also be attributed to Jesus. When god decided to drown the entire world and in the process kill every innocent baby from China to Chile, Jesus was there. When god led his armies in mass genocide all over the Old Testament resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocent babies, Jesus was there. When god categorically commanded his armies to wipe out all living things, including babies, plants and livestock from some captured cities, Jesus was there. Are those enough examples? The only way you can exonerate jesus from this one is if you claim that he isn't god. if you claim he is god, then you have to hold him culpable for all those murders.

Secondly, doesn't Jesus himself say that he came to fulfil the law, not abolish it. Meaning that he came to continue the Old Testament law, not to bring any new laws. So what's this new order story? Plus, god is meant to be perfect. He doesn't change. It is therefore absurd to claim that he changed his laws from the Old to the New Testament. Men change because we are not perfect and we cannot see what the future holds. God sees all the future, and he is perfect, therefore if he made a commandment in 1 Gabzillion BC, then that same commandment will hold true and unchangeable in 1 gabzillion AD. Saying that Jesus came to establish a new order is tacitly implying that the old order was flawed. Unless you beleive that god isn't perfect, this cannot be true.

[chotadipo]

>Correction Chotadipo. You are only a memeber since Member
>since Jan 31st 2005. Perhaps it will do you good to check your
>facts before typing.

I'll leave it at that...

>The Even though God gave us independence we are still his
>subjects and his laws we must not infringe. Just to ask you a
>question. Will you be pleased with a lawless society where
>evil is exalted and righteousness is defiled?

To answer directly, I would not be pleased. But again, evil and righteousness are subjective. Even in a law abiding society, the laws by themselves could be tyrannical. Would that make the society more righteous then the lawless society?

>Chotadipo would you be happy if I raped your one year old
>nephew in the name of freewill, or will you be overjoyed at my
>mentioning of my sexual prowess upon your wife? I dare you to
>answer in the affirmative to the above questions. As if that
>was no enough I do want to ask whether you would not love to
>lynch me in order to settle the score or you would let me go
>free since I was merely exercising my freewill.
>
Of course I would not be happy. The same way you would not be happy if you did all the above to my nephew and I laugh till my ribs ache about it. You will really be puzzled to say the least. Although we are speaking hypothetically and using examples that are detestable at best, the point here is still, if I knew all the above would happen and don't do about it, what is the essence of creating Teejay, letting him rape Chotadipo's nephew and Chotadipo lynching him because we have free will and then turn around and send us all to hell including my nephew, who by the way had no control of all the above?

Ka achiemo to giwacho ni achiemo mang'eny. Katuwo to gichuna gi chiemo!???
Nyul duto, okiriwe kata matin, wachgi ka ginindo kech