[satjas]

Hey croach

>You were made from a union of the sperm and egg, do you think
>it is impossible for God to recreate you on the Day of
>Reckonning?

there is no day of reckonning, lol!!!! what happened to the version that we were made from clay? mud? or from a rib??? do you see how ridiculous these theories are???


>God gives life and takes life and although you were involved
>in ending that particular persons life doesn't mean you are
>free from blame.

but if it all happened with God's knowledge because God is in control then God was involved too, is that too difficult to understand? Can't you see that what you are saying doesn't make sense???

>The body is where the soul resides and for
>the soul to function in a body it needs to function minimally.

hmmmm.......another statement just to fill space, WHAT DO YOU MEAN??

>If the corporeal ceases to be bale to sustain the soul the
>spirit eventually leaves the body and goes to its maker.

I'll hold you on this statement because you claim it goes to some place before judgement and if it goes to its maker then what about the claims that it goes to hell? Or isn't God also in hell, cos God has to be everywhere??? omnipresent???


>This has solely to do with your inability to conduct a
>civilised discussion.

how true!!!! this is exactly the clash of civilisations that Wafa Sultan was talking about, your 7th century civilisation and our 21st one!!!!

>You are unable to exhaust a topic but
>instead jumps around to anotehr topic only to come back to it
>later in another post. You want to know the rules of "Talaq"?
>Go read, do a google and you will know what is said about
>giving three 'talaq'. But I guess it gives the impression to
>other readers that you haev a valid point if you sneak it in
>in the middle of another discussion.

The fallacies of your ideology can never be exhausted...there are bundles, tons of them...and they are all interrealated.......Crazy that even your allah had to abrogate soem messages, like he cocked up and then had to remedy his stupidity....i thought god was always correct from day 1??????


>What quotes and who is talking about quotes? Only you are.

the ones from your kooooran silly!!!! and the one's you post as well.......guess what? we both give quotes from the same book and you don't like it....nyeh , nyeh, nyeh!!!

>I'm
>talking about your conduct as a human being using this media,
>and since you can't tackle it it is easy to run to these
>"quotes" you keep talking about and press the letter 'o' a few
>extra times hoping to mock a bit more in the process.

Human beings do not screw 9 year old girls, they do not kill apostates, they don't go beserk over some silly cartoons.

> I'm
>starting to understand how you fucntion, it is easier dealing
>with you now because I used to waste a lot of time trying to
>discuss in a civil manner. Grow a brain and learn to discuss.

Once again i am inferior and you are superior, you have a brain and i don't....please let me know how i function cos even i don't know that myself........

>Yes you are illogical and using sophistry to avoid conceding
>an error will not help.

perfect, like the kooran does right? oops!! wrong verse sent, let's abrogate it. Are you hereby stating that allah is also illogical and uses sophistry to concede errors?? were the satanic verses in the koooran errors????



>Do you have dyslexia or neglect? Where do you see taht they
>should be put to death by human beings? They will be punished
>for their disbelief, BY GOD!

Yuo nveer caese to clal mi naems....do i gte to yuo croach?? ati now i am dyslexic or neglected??? lol!!!! So tell us how does allah punish them??? by giving them cars and houses and land? or by burning them in hell fire?? You are trying to hide the fact that it means death, killing........you cannot seem to equate punishment via allah as an order to kill............but i'll let you on a secret.....it's in your KOOOOOORAN!!!!!


>You evidently don't grasp a thing I'm saying :)

ditto!!!

>EARTH TO SATJAS...BY GOD IN THE HEREAFTER!

Hmmm........do you claim to speak for god now????

>Are you living in pre-westphalia times? It is the job of
>authorites to deal with any elements in society that do not
>conform. And the spiritual leaders are doing their part, but
>enforcing the laws are done by the state. These are small
>groups but I guess it helps you in your argument to try and
>paint this as a mainstream problem, whatever floats your
>boat.

aren't you the same person who said that the spiritual laws aka sharia laws are above the law of the land??? that they take priority...i don't have time to look for it but i know you have said that here on mashada.....help, anyone? atlian, tm??

>A million children die of malaria a year in Africa, millions
>die each day in the world because of lack of water and basic
>healthcare. 85% of the world lives on undera dollar a day and
>cannot afford basic things like water electricty and decent
>healthcare, but you are obsessed with terrorism. That is the
>language of the rich countries in teh west, terrorism is
>highest on theri agenda but monetary equality for everyone is
>highest on the agenda of those who really care.

Coach what the hell are you then doing seated in london???? how are you helping these poor kids coach????

>Over six million people have died in Congo the last seven
>years, do you even care? Or are you just preoccupied with
>terrorism conducted by some deranged individuals in teh west?

yes and many more in darfur.....simply because they were not arabs, a superior race, muslims mostly.......how do you know whether i care or not? have you been with me to know what i have done in my life???

>I don't blame you either, you are a victim of a system that is
>made to blame Islam (and not a few disenfranchised Muslims)
>for all atrocties in teh world.

how many of these few have you got in your midst, now that you admit there is a problem?????????????

>I see a problem but it is not the problem you see. I see that
>America invaded Afghansitan to remove the despotic Taliban but
>still left the country in a worse of situation than they found
>it (PS: Opium is also flowing now that the Taliban are out)

opium was still flowing even then......guess what, it's still the aghani people who grow it....you have not been to afghanistan to know what situation it is in have you??? Please do not state things as if you know......when were you there last? did we meet???


>You show me a verse of teh Qur'an taht says apostates should
>be tried and killed and then we will continue with discussion.
>Until then, put a lid it!

exactly, like all else, you'd like to put a lid on everything......you've been putting on the lid for the last 14 centuries but now when people question you have no answers, you are busy puting on lids on everything, the aisha factor (fvkedher) the apostacy, the satanic verses....name it its all there in the koooran.

>Faith is a matter of choice, if my children choose to believe
>in God then that would be great. If they don't then it is
>their loss. There is no compulsion in religion!

You see that is where we are fundamentally diverse. IF my children (god willing) were to believe about god that would be great, if they didn't that would be great too!!!!! then i can say there is no compulsion in 'religion'. I wouldn't see it as a loss.


>I can see taht you are using teh smae langauge as the
>extremists, maybe you have more in common with them.

and which extremists are these coach?? i sure would like to know......

>The feeling is mutual, a donkey that is carrying a load of
>books is still a donkey.

Hey yeah, but a donkey carrying the books across the river and drinking the water voluntarily (without compulsion) because it knows it will get nourishment from the water is different from the donkey that carries the books but doesn't drink the water because it is been brainwashed (compelled) into thinking there are 72 virgin donkeys and plenty of wine across the river......comprendez???


>Well these forums will be there for you to see in the
>hereafter it will be evident that you chose to disbelieve.

Coach, don't be silly...you said our souls would go back to the maker but you also said that God and his creation are seperate......so how will we be able to see these forums that are here in this creation??? do you see how ill informed your statements can sometimes be? you don't know whether you are coming or going.....


> I
>will be there with you in spirit, not to have a last laugh but
>to feel taht you refused to see the light although it was
>glaring in your face.

Coach that is so true.......it was a glaring light that said 'DO NOT ENTER, ONLY MUSLIMS ALLOWED'...........so i turned and ran!!!!!!!

-the paradigm shifter.......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[Coach]

>there is no day of reckonning, lol!!!! what happened to the
>version that we were made from clay? mud? or from a rib??? do
>you see how ridiculous these theories are???

It is only ridiculous to those who refuse to see what is in front of them.



>but if it all happened with God's knowledge because God is in
>control then God was involved too, is that too difficult to
>understand? Can't you see that what you are saying doesn't

>make sense???

It makes sense, but not to you because your mind is shut.



>>The body is where the soul resides and for
>>the soul to function in a body it needs to function
>minimally.
>
>hmmmm.......another statement just to fill space, WHAT DO YOU
>MEAN??

BODY - the physical enity (vessel) your soul and spirit reside in.

SOUL - life that resides in the body

SPIRIT - the person inside the body, the personality, gooness, evil etc. This spirit leaves the body when you sleep, the dreams you see are from your soul wondering in the other dimensions in the universe.

Body + Soul + Spirit = a Living Human

Living Human - Spirit = a Living Body 'Sleeping Human'

Human Being - (Spirit + Soul) = Dead Body


Get it now?


>>If the corporeal ceases to be bale to sustain the soul the
>>spirit eventually leaves the body and goes to its maker.
>
>I'll hold you on this statement because you claim it goes to
>some place before judgement and if it goes to its maker then
>what about the claims that it goes to hell? Or isn't God also
>in hell, cos God has to be everywhere??? omnipresent???

If I claim God is a physical entity that is restricted by time or space then you can hold this against me. Omnipresence is not PHYSICAL but spiritual. When I say "the spirit goes to its Maker", don't take it literally in a physical sense as God is Omnipresent.



>>This has solely to do with your inability to conduct a
>>civilised discussion.
>
>how true!!!! this is exactly the clash of civilisations that
>Wafa Sultan was talking about, your 7th century civilisation
>and our 21st one!!!!

So if you believe in the teachings and beleifs of Copernicus (about the motion of earth around its axis) does that mean you are living in 16th century?



>The fallacies of your ideology can never be exhausted...

Apparently, neither can your ignorance and stupidity.




>Once again i am inferior and you are superior, you have a
>brain and i don't....please let me know how i function cos
>even i don't know that myself........


I don't know about my superiority but your malfunction is evident in your words.




>>Yes you are illogical and using sophistry to avoid conceding
>>an error will not help.
>
>perfect, like the kooran does right? oops!! wrong verse sent,
>let's abrogate it. Are you hereby stating that allah is also
>illogical and uses sophistry to concede errors?? were the
>satanic verses in the koooran errors????

Again, the smae old tactics. Yawns!


>
>
>>Do you have dyslexia or neglect? Where do you see taht they
>>should be put to death by human beings? They will be
>punished
>>for their disbelief, BY GOD!
>
>Yuo nveer caese to clal mi naems....do i gte to yuo croach??
>ati now i am dyslexic or neglected??? lol!!!!


No shatas, you don't get to me. Actually, I know very well how to handle you, your discrepancies and your insults. I asked you to produce a verse that says apostates should be put to death, you fail to do that but still claim victory. Don't you ever get tired of your stawnam arguments.


So tell us how
>does allah punish them??? by giving them cars and houses and
>land? or by burning them in hell fire?? You are trying to hide
>the fact that it means death, killing........you cannot seem
>to equate punishment via allah as an order to
>kill............but i'll let you on a secret.....it's in your
>KOOOOOORAN!!!!!

You always try to discredit the Qur'an but then in the smae breath fail to even udnerstand what you discredit. The Qur'an is clear on certain things; it forbids alcohol and pork, says that a murderer and treacherous person should be killed etc. But IT IS CLEAR WHEN IT COMES TO APOSTASY, ONLY GOD CAN BE THE JUDGE OF WHAT I IN OUR HEARTS OR LACK THEREOF. Comprende? I guess not!



>
>>You evidently don't grasp a thing I'm saying :)
>
>ditto!!!
>
>>EARTH TO SATJAS...BY GOD IN THE HEREAFTER!
>
>Hmmm........do you claim to speak for god now????

No, I am telling you that apostates are NOT to be tried and sentenced to death by humans, but you CONSCIOUSLY REFUSE TO GRASP THIS.




>>Are you living in pre-westphalia times? It is the job of
>>authorites to deal with any elements in society that do not
>>conform. And the spiritual leaders are doing their part, but
>>enforcing the laws are done by the state. These are small
>>groups but I guess it helps you in your argument to try and
>>paint this as a mainstream problem, whatever floats your
>>boat.
>
>aren't you the same person who said that the spiritual laws
>aka sharia laws are above the law of the land??? that they
>take priority...i don't have time to look for it but i know
>you have said that here on mashada.....help, anyone? atlian,
>tm??


Did I contradict myself? Go ahead and read what I said again, man can NOT TAKE LAW IN HIS OWN HANDS without using the juricial tools.

>Coach what the hell are you then doing seated in london????
>how are you helping these poor kids coach????


Again, you don't know me and I don't know you. So lets not get ahead of ourselves.





>>Over six million people have died in Congo the last seven
>>years, do you even care? Or are you just preoccupied with
>>terrorism conducted by some deranged individuals in teh
>west?
>
>yes and many more in darfur.....simply because they were not
>arabs, a superior race, muslims mostly.......how do you know
>whether i care or not? have you been with me to know what i
>have done in my life???

More than 6 milliondied in Darfur? You should not get your news from faithfreedom. The people on the ground in Darfur (which includes a friend of mine working to help the displaced refugges across the Chad border) NEVER reported such high death tolls. Arethe Chechens being killed by teh Christian Russians because they are inferior? You should get your head out your arse when discussing, all the e-coli bacterias fog your intellect, lol.



>>I don't blame you either, you are a victim of a system that
>is
>>made to blame Islam (and not a few disenfranchised Muslims)
>>for all atrocties in teh world.
>
>how many of these few have you got in your midst, now that you
>admit there is a problem?????????????

How many? Idon't know a number, do you?



>opium was still flowing even then......guess what, it's still
>the aghani people who grow it....you have not been to
>afghanistan to know what situation it is in have you??? Please
>do not state things as if you know......when were you there
>last? did we meet???

And here I thought you knew what is going on in teh world, I guess the only thing you know about Afghanistan is the story of AbdulRahman. Read below...

"U.N. drug control officers said the Taliban religious militia has nearly wiped out opium production in Afghanistan -- once the world's largest producer -- since banning poppy cultivation last summer."

source: http://opioids.com/afghanistan/

"Sergei Ivanov said Afghanistan was now producing nine times the quantity of drugs it did under the Taliban..."

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanista...143881,00.html

Those are the first two links I found when I typed "opium+afghanistan+taliban". You do the same and alter the search a bit to learn more.




>>Faith is a matter of choice, if my children choose to
>believe
>>in God then that would be great. If they don't then it is
>>their loss. There is no compulsion in religion!
>
>You see that is where we are fundamentally diverse. IF my
>children (god willing) were to believe about god that would be
>great, if they didn't that would be great too!!!!! then i can
>say there is no compulsion in 'religion'. I wouldn't see it as
>a loss.

Me seeing it as a loss doesn't mean that I am forcing it on them, it is still their choice and it is them who will be facing the Maker.



>>I can see taht you are using teh smae langauge as the
>>extremists, maybe you have more in common with them.
>
>and which extremists are these coach?? i sure would like to
>know......

The extremists use certain verses of context to justify their actions and behaviour, you do the same. You have more in common with them that you aer ready to admit.

>>The feeling is mutual, a donkey that is carrying a load of
>>books is still a donkey.
>
>Hey yeah, but a donkey carrying the books across the river and
>drinking the water voluntarily (without compulsion) because it
>knows it will get nourishment from the water is different from
>the donkey that carries the books but doesn't drink the water
>because it is been brainwashed (compelled) into thinking there
>are 72 virgin donkeys and plenty of wine across the
>river......comprendez???

You are confusing and mixing two adages according to your whims...

1. You can take a donkey to the river but you can't force it to drink

2. A donkey carrying a load of books is still a donkey





>>Well these forums will be there for you to see in the
>>hereafter it will be evident that you chose to disbelieve.
>
>Coach, don't be silly...you said our souls would go back to
>the maker but you also said that God and his creation are
>seperate......so how will we be able to see these forums that
>are here in this creation??? do you see how ill informed your
>statements can sometimes be? you don't know whether you are
>coming or going.....

Humans will see evrything they did on earth before they are given their reward or punishment. Just like evidence is brought in a court of law before a defendant before beingfound guilty/not guilty.



"A man's behavior is the index of the man, and his speech is the index of his understanding." Ali ibn Abu Talib (RAA)

[rock junkie]

OH
MY
GOD!!!

Talk about lengthy!!

"...my tea's gone cold i'm wondering why i got out of bed at all..."- Dido, Thank you

[Americanized]

Moslems have their work cut out for them. You need to educate the world on Islam's view on the use of murder to solve theological disputes. Does Islam sanction jihad as seen through the eyes of terrorists? Does Islam sanction punishment by death for anyone who converts to Christianity? These issues need to be addressed in an open forum.

The current view of non-Moslems is that Moslems are quick to kill anyone who utters anything that can even be remotely considered an affront to Islam or prophet Mohammed. How can there be open discourse and elightenment when one party is armed and ready to chop your head off if you offend him?

I took a diversity class in college and they brought in some Moslem leader to create more awareness about Islam and dispel any misconceptions. It was a total disaster because everyone was scared to ask the questions they really needed the answers to because Moslems are notoriously touchy when it comes to religious issues. It was so uncomfortable, with everyone just waiting for the dude to get done and leave!

[Coach]

>Does Islam sanction jihad as seen
>through the eyes of terrorists?

NO!


Does Islam sanction punishment
>by death for anyone who converts to Christianity?

NO! The Quran clearly says "There is no compulsion in religion" and you wouldn't as this question if you read this post.

These issues
>need to be addressed in an open forum.

Again, read the post.

>The current view of non-Moslems is that Moslems are quick to
>kill anyone who utters anything that can even be remotely
>considered an affront to Islam or prophet Mohammed.

It is generalising and equally shallow to say that the current view of non-Americans is that Americans are ready to kill anyone who has oil or who opposes them.


How can
>there be open discourse and elightenment when one party is
>armed and ready to chop your head off if you offend him?

The one who offends is ignorant as one should not aim to offend but to create dialogue and bridges between cultures and religions. Likewise, anyone who cannot tolerate criticism presented in a respectful manner is an illogical lunatic.

>I took a diversity class in college and they brought in some
>Moslem leader to create more awareness about Islam and dispel
>any misconceptions. It was a total disaster because everyone
>was scared to ask the questions they really needed the answers
>to because Moslems are notoriously touchy when it comes to
>religious issues. It was so uncomfortable, with everyone just
>waiting for the dude to get done and leave!

They must be too ignorant or Americanized!


"A man's behavior is the index of the man, and his speech is the index of his understanding." Ali ibn Abu Talib (RAA)