[satjas]

Hey mbajuni

>That goes to show how much you know me satjas...Unlike you..I
>am straight up with no ulterior motives.

I don't claim to know you and have no need whatsoever......and as far as you think i have ulterior motives, may i point out that I will raise red flags whenever falsehood is preached...especially the one in your holy books......do i have to be more blatant than that?

> I believe in Jesus as
>my prophet and am as curious about his background as I am
>about Noah, Jacob, David etc particularly because their
>childhood is not highlighted in the Quran in detail...THAT is
>exactly why I asked about Jesus, to see if I could fill in
>some gaps on his life too.

thats just an apologetic stance cos you want to be seen as united with the christians but you would never have the ability to call a christian lady your sister..as in my sister in christ....would you? but you would a muslim lady....that is why you are only for face value not in depth love.

>I don't need to ask a question with
>a motive that people will ask about Muhammed (PBUH).

No that is not what i meant, and TM got it wrong as well......believe you me if we went into MooHamMad's childhood and the stuff he got up to you would wish you never asked this question...that's what i meant.

>There was
>documentation of the whole of the prophet Muhammed's life
>(PBUH) by historians, if someone is really interested, they
>can go on google. They surely don't need to ask me back
>anyway...so why should I be dumb enough to expect that???
>Unless people are behind in this age of technology and search
>engines.

If it makes you happy that you are ahead in this technological age and are not dumb then so be it......when it suits you you give quotes from the kooran but when asked you direct us towards google.......been there done that.


>So keep your assumptions to yourself please and stop spreading
>your hate wherever you go.

Ofcourse you would like to preach that I am spreading hate yet all i have done is quote from the same kooran that you read from......thus this apparent hate is actually that which the kooran writes about.
Secondly, just like i do not know you and have no need to, please do not judge me.


>Muslims and Christians don't have
>to hate each other but when third parties step in who don't
>belong to either two groups (or worse yet hate them both) and
>start rumourmongering and spreading maliciousness as you have
>done continously. The problem then begins.

You are looking for an ally in christians. And you are so wrong about the two. Christians generally do not hate as much as Islamists do......islamists only use the situation to suit them, when they have no need for christians , they would not hesistate to get rid of them....as the Bani Quaraiya(sp) experienced.

have a nice day mbajuni...

-the paradigm shifter.....God's friend.

[Mbajuni]

>I don't claim to know you and have no need whatsoever......and
>as far as you think i have ulterior motives, may i point out
>that I will raise red flags whenever falsehood is
>preached...especially the one in your holy books......do i
>have to be more blatant than that?

Stop adding salt into the pot...I am talking about what you said about my intentions on posting this board not about the previous quotes you have had in the Quran and otehr maarguments zako. So wacha kuchange topic ovyo ovyo


>thats just an apologetic stance cos you want to be seen as
>united with the christians but you would never have the
>ability to call a christian lady your sister..as in my sister
>in christ....would you? but you would a muslim lady

What an assumption AGAIN!!...I call black people my sisters whether muslim/christian/jew or whatever; and Muslimahs (muslim women), I call them my Muslim sisters. So again...STOP ACTING LIKE YOU KNOW ME.

> ....that is why you are only for face value not in depth love.

I loooooooooooooooooove my Kenyan people, but I like Africans
I loooooooooooooooooove my parents, but I like my family-friends.
I loooooooooooooooooove my blood sisters, but I like my friends
I loooooooooooooooooove my best friend, but I like my aquaintances
I loooooooooooooooooove my Muslim sisters, but I like other women

Is there something wrong with this analogy?? One loves, what is closer to them. Obviously a Muslim sister is closer to me than a non-Muslim and a best friend is closer than an acquaintance and doesn't equate the same depth of love. It doesn't take a fool to know that.


>No that is not what i meant, and TM got it wrong as
>well......believe you me if we went into MooHamMad's childhood
>and the stuff he got up to you would wish you never asked this
>question...that's what i meant.

Then why don't you tell us about this so called childhood of his that would repulse us...and don't forget to source it...


>when it suits you you
>give quotes from the kooran but when asked you direct us
>towards google.......been there done that.

WHO ASKED??? Nobody asked...wacha kubadilisha topic and pointing to the sky when people are talking about the sea. I am the one who asked the question here, I am the one who posted the baord. I am more than glad if someone asks ME a question to provide a quote for the Quran. The point here is not that I want you all to google answers. The point again is that unlike the assumption you made about me posting this board...I will not bother to try and hint for people to ask me about the prophet's history because I know if they really wanted to they can look into it themselves so me expecting mtu ajibu..."oh, Jesus's childhood was like so....so what about prophet Muhammeds'?"...that is pure ujinga. If I posted this board expecting that as you suggested, I would be a fool as obviously there are very smart people who read these posts that if they really were curious they would go and research and not give me the benefit of a doubt to respond in that naive manner. But don't get me wrong....If someone ASKS...I will be at their beck and call...If someone misundertands...I will be there to clear things up as I also believe in self-directed learning. You learn at your pace, at your will and according to your own resources and there should always be someone there to clarify if you get things wrong. That my dear satjas is what I was referring to, and I was not telling people to stop asking me things and google it instead...so stop putting words onto my keyboard.


>Ofcourse you would like to preach that I am spreading hate yet
>all i have done is quote from the same kooran that you read
>from......thus this apparent hate is actually that which the
>kooran writes about.
>Secondly, just like i do not know you and have no need to,
>please do not judge me.

Who's preaching?? What in the world are you talking about??? Again, wacha kuchange topic ovyo ovyo. I commented on your assumptions about me and my actions on posting this board and your assumptions abotu intentions of Muslims not about your exact quotes from the Quran...

And stop playing innocent here. Ati "just like i do not know you and have no need to, please do not judge me." PULEEZZ!! You made your intentions loud and clear if you read the comments for the following questions below the next paragraph.

If you don't really want to know me then don't try making random guesses about my intentions because then you will have no choice but to when I have to clarify your wrong assumptions.


>You are looking for an ally in christians. And you are so
>wrong about the two. Christians generally do not hate as much
>as Islamists do......islamists only use the situation to suit
>them, when they have no need for christians , they would not
>hesistate to get rid of them....as the Bani Quaraiya(sp)
>experienced.

Firstly, "Islamist" is a political term...not the religion so watch your language. I am not Islamist and neither are most Muslims.

Secondly, it seems like you really have a problem with Muslims and Christians getting along...why?? Ok fine, if you have a problem with that shauri yako but why do you hate on me for wanting peace between people that I believe (plus the jews) are closer in beliefs than they are with any other religious groups? This is acting like the primo' child with no school friends who started rumours between two friends just because he/she thought..."if I don't have a friend, then no one will and I will make them ALL hate each other". I remember there were many of these who existed in those kitoto days. I am not judging you in general satjas...only the comments that you posted on my intentions over the past...you just said it yourself...you just questioned my goals for uniting christians and Muslims. Yes I admit I want "allys" in christians, but not in the war sense. I want an ally in the quest for better society, for the belief in one God and for peace. Is there anything wrong with that? You just said it yourself satjas...you seem to have an issue with that unison that I seek...How unfortunate that a literally sour apple rests in the basket. oops! Actually it rests outside the basket but jumped in...my bad!

So please don't stray from the main point when you reply to this message. Basically my point is (minus the examples, analogies and metaphors), just throw-out your ill-efforts of deciphering my intentions for posting this board and other comments over the past about the intentions for all Muslims. You have obviously stated your issues with Islam and Christianity clearly so I know where you stand...but I have never told you where I stand with the history of Jesus and clearly stated that I personally do not despise christians so don't make assumptions bana...that's all I ask. For example you say here..."when they [Muslims] have no need for christians , they would not hesistate to get rid of them". Can you really make that 100% prophesy?? I mean, who died and made you the psychic of the century??


(109.1) Say: O unbelievers!
(109.2) I do not serve that which you serve,
(109.3) Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
(109.4) Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
(109.5) Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
(109.6) You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[satjas]

Hey Mbajuni

>Firstly, "Islamist" is a political term...not the religion so
>watch your language. I am not Islamist and neither are most
>Muslims.

From all the rubbish that you've posted above this is exactly what I mean when i say one cannot trust people who follow your ideology.....that above is an islamic mind......they even deny themselves........when someone gets so brainwashed as to think that an islamist is not a muslim.......woman you really think we are all illiterate eh?

In fact i wonder sometimes when you say like.....sharia spelt with a small 's'?? I mean does it make kooran any less unless it is spelt Kooran? does it make jesus any less than when we spell Jesus? Where does it say its a sign of respect?? Will mooHamMad be any less than MooHamMad.....does it take away their attributes? would god get pissed off if i spelt it's name (yes i said 'its'!!) without a capital letter??? Do i have to prove that by writing the capital letter i am respecting it more? What kind of depraved logic is that??

>Obviously a Muslim sister is closer to me than a non-Muslim and a best friend is closer >than an acquaintance and doesn't equate the same depth of love. It doesn't take a fool to >know that.

Is that why you think we are stupid? so this muslim woman who might be a gossip, conniving, or plain evil will be closer to you than an ordinary lady off the street who habours no ill will against you? But simply you'll take the side of the muslim woman.....and then you try and tell us how fair you are......not once do you mention any virtues, like- i'd take one who speaks the truth as my friend, I'd take one who likes me for what i am as my friend, I'll take one who is honest as my friend, BUT NO!! you are closer to a muslim than a non muslim.....in your own words and then you say i am unfair. Mbajuni at least respect your own IQ.

I do not enjoy arguing with religious people and especially not with muslims as your statement at the top what I am up against.....I have said this before, One never wins an argument with a muslim........it would be an unfair match, one cannot pitch logic against dogmatic belief.

It serves you to make me look like an idiot. I have no problem with that, i'd rather look like one than be one. What gets your goat is that all that i mention ACTUALLY comes from your kooran and you cannot take it....and since you know I am not a muslim you would like to console yourself that I do not know and that i only copy and paste. DO NOT assume others have not read the kooran. As a matter of fact if anyone wants enlightenment they should read that stuff.....one reads it, realizes its absurdities, and runs from it with enlightenment!!!!

-the paradigm shifter.....god's friend.

[chotadipo]

>....so this muslim woman who
>might be a gossip, conniving, or plain evil will be closer to
>you than an ordinary lady off the street who habours no ill
>will against you? But simply you'll take the side of the
>muslim woman.....

I concur with you on this. I cannot quite remember which post Atlian mentioned something to this effect. His anaolgy was of a child killer going to heaven because his religion says he can be forgiven while the little girl rots in hell...

This type of thinking is very prevelant in religion. Logic is thrown out of the window. It goes like this, since I am a muslim and you are a muslim (doesn't matter if we kill plander, rape, fornicate...), it doesn't matter how righteous the 'pagan' is, he is an enemy that must be dealt with and our God will understand and forgive us. Same thinking have experienced with a lot of christians.

To say teh least, it is very absurd!

[ATLian]

>I concur with you on this. I cannot quite remember which post
>Atlian mentioned something to this effect. His anaolgy was of
>a child killer going to heaven because his religion says he
>can be forgiven while the little girl rots in hell...

Chotadipo,

here's my analogy in full. I hope this is the one you meant.

I didn't mention this when I posted the below article - but since Amy wasn't saved when she died, according to Christian belefs, that means she'll also be in hell with her mum, Idi Amin and Lotodo, while Frank relaxes in heaven with Abraham and John the Baptist. WTF???


http://www.mashada.com/forums/index....ng_type=search

"Amy Sue Seitz, and the only unforgiveable sin"

This is a very sad, but true story. Some psycho called Theodore Francis Frank kidnapped Ms. Amy Sue Seitz. He forced her to drink alcohol, raped her repeatedly, then tortured her horribly with a pair of pliers. He squeezed both her nipples in the pliers with such force that her nipples were left as flat as a paper. Then he peeled off her skin with the same pliers while she was still alive. From there he punched her head repeatedly and with such brute force that her skull cracked in numerous places resulting in a massive brain hemorrhage. Then he raped Amy again and again and when he was satisfied, he strangled her to death. He then threw her body into a trash heap on his way home. Some guy's dogs then found the body and ravaged it some more before their owner realized what the meat being ravaged was, and called the cops. Theodore Francis Frank was 43 years old, while Amy Sue Seitz was a 24 month old, 32 pounds heavy, 32 inches tall baby girl!

It says in the bible in Mathew 12:31-32, Mark 3:29 and Luke 12:10 that EVERY sin can be forgiven except one. This ONE unforgiveable sin is not the grave sins of pedophilia or infanticide committed by Theodore Francis Frank - the one sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.

Mathew 12:31-32: "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

I think - and this is the point of my post - that of all the sins god could have chosen to make unforgivable, he chose the wrong one.

According to the bible, if Theodore Francis Frank confessed his sins, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ as his personal savior, he would go to heaven and live happily ever after with god, Abraham, Elijah, etc. On the other hand, let's assume that Sherry Roberts (Amy's mum) came and saw her daughters body. Of course she'd be totally devastated and grief-stricken. Let’s assume that in the heat of the moment she cursed the holy ghost, asking how the holy ghost could let that happen to her daughter. The bible says because Sherry blasphemed the Holy Ghost – even if the blasphemous words were uttered in a grief-stricken moment - she would be doomed to eternal hell fire. It doesn't matter if she had been a godly person before Amy's death, and continued to be a godly person after. It doesn't matter that she only blasphemed because of the grief of seeing her daughter's body. According to the bible and Jesus, Sherry would roast slowly forever in hell with Pol Pot and Hitler, while Theodore Francis Frank would spend the rest of his life in Heaven, playing nyabs with Angel Gabriel and Moses, and having Sunday coffee every once in a while with Mother Theresa. Heck, he might even bump into Amy there every once in a while! WTF?

My question is, why would god view the attrocities committed to Amy as forgivable, then view Sherry’s blasphemy as unforgivable? How can this view be fair, and how can a fair god take such a view. Of course I have a ton of other related questions - like what sort of god would create Theodore Francis Frank? Why didn’t god stop him as her nipples were being flattened to pulp? Why didn't god stop him before he raped her for the Nth time?

I don't believe in god, but if I did, there is no way I would worship a god with such twisted priorities, or a god who allows such things to happen!

[TeamManager]

>My question is, why would god view the attrocities committed to Amy
>as forgivable, then view Sherry’s blasphemy as unforgivable?

First remember that NO ONE is being forgiven without God's grace and their repentance. We are all spiritually dead. None of us deserves or even merits God's grace ...its just a gift.

Second, if you are crossing a river using a bridge .......its only by staying on it that you reach the end. Any other method is falling short. It doesnt matter whether you are Amin dada etc, without the bridge you are going no where.

[satjas]

Hey TM

once again you have taken the cake, and eaten it all.


>First remember that NO ONE is being forgiven without God's
>grace and their repentance.

Ok, let's just suppose that we agree to that statement....who then checks to see and confirm that one has been forgiven? Is it possible that God out of His own goodness chooses joe bloggs out of the blues and forgives him?

> We are all spiritually dead.

No, not all of us are. I have been in the company of very spiritually uplifted people who do amazing things but are extremely humble that you would never guess how gifted they were if you saw them on the street.

>None of us deserves or even merits God's grace ...its just a gift.

i could agree with you there to an extent......but then the question is, if you yourself think that you do not deserve or merit anything from God especially His grace, then why would God want to give you that very thing you feel you don't deserve?? A bit pointless aint it??

>Second, if you are crossing a river using a bridge .......its
>only by staying on it that you reach the end. Any other method
>is falling short. It doesnt matter whether you are Amin dada
>etc, without the bridge you are going no where.

Ha, you start out well, but then warp up at the end. Why don't we get back to the river bank and start all over again??? How about, there's a bridge, a boat, a waterski, a frogsuit or pure "au naturelle" skin...take your choice, but you gotta get to the other side.

You see what you have done here is given people the bridge and then told them they have no other choice. But when they look over they see others swimming across, others on boats, some on waterskis. When they question you TM you say they have fallen short if they choose any other method. Point is.....without the bridge you are going nowhere, but by all means feel free to take the boat or swim or whatever.....the journey of life simply has to be taken, there is no turning back once one is born.

-the paradigm shifter.....God's friend.


The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[reggie_woic]

I thought you guys just write alot, and i mean ALOT, of nonsense...I was wrong.

Did i stutter? I think not.