[satjas]

Hey Coach,


>Your asking me whether I
>would marry a 9 year olf girl when I'm 52 is dependant on the
>norms of the culture I live in, what is right and wrong is
>determined by Divine Law and ALSO the culture of the place on
>is living.

hello, which one is it? divine law or the culture cos surely both cannot be the same.....otherwise why have the two......do you follow your divine law or the english law as you live in london???? Or which one takes priority???

>Judging Samburu people according to the western cultural norms
>today is ignorant, and so is judging someone who lived in the
>7th Century according to the norms that prevail today.

Yet once again I ask , would you or wouldn't you? without going into the spiel......yes or no? And by the way I have no problem if you married even a 5yr old.....just don't screw her when she immediately reaches puberty @ 9yrs old, will ya????? Would you???



>- In 7th Century Arabia and most cultures around the world, a
>girl becomes a woman when she hits Puberty.

Just read that statement again and again and discover have blase it is. Why don't you also tell us " boys become men when they hit puberty, but for certain men puberty can come at the age of 52"?????????


>- Aisha moved in with the Prophet after she hit puberty, which
>means she was considered "ready for marriage" according to the
>prevailing norms.

she didn't move in...she was taken in...there is a difference. What would a little child of 6 know about moving in with an older man??????


>So what is your argument mzee? Are you ignorantly claiming
>taht she moved in with the Prophet before puberty? Are you
>ignoring these facts just as sajtas is just to push your
>agenda through?

here we go again, claiming to be victims of some "agenda" !!!! you cannot bear to accept the fact that your self appointed leader slept ( see i've been nice, i don't say screw any more, though its the same thing) with a 9 yr old ayesha. It's like a bad dream that won't go away.....you don't enjoy being reminded.....but it is the truth and you know it, Coach!

-the paradigm shifter.......God's friend

[Coach]

>>Your asking me whether I
>>would marry a 9 year olf girl when I'm 52 is dependant on
>the
>>norms of the culture I live in, what is right and wrong is
>>determined by Divine Law and ALSO the culture of the place
>on
>>is living.
>
>hello, which one is it? divine law or the culture cos surely
>both cannot be the same.....otherwise why have the two......do
>you follow your divine law or the english law as you live in
>london???? Or which one takes priority???

Divine Law takes priority but when something is not forbidden by divine law, then cultural norms are applied. As a Muslims who is a Somali, I practise my religion without losing my traditions, that is as long as they are not in conflict with religion. Somalis had a pre-Islamic culture of circumcizing females (which is a Pharaonic tradition), since this is in conflict with Islamic Law the practise is abandonned by those who adhere to Islam. Some still do it out of ignorance thinking it's religious duty.




>>Judging Samburu people according to the western cultural
>norms
>>today is ignorant, and so is judging someone who lived in
>the
>>7th Century according to the norms that prevail today.
>
>Yet once again I ask , would you or wouldn't you? without
>going into the spiel......yes or no? And by the way I have no
>problem if you married even a 5yr old.....just don't screw her
>when she immediately reaches puberty @ 9yrs old, will ya?????
>Would you???

I live in the UK today and therefore adapt to the norms here. For example, it is against the law to physically beat your children but this practise is widespread in Africa. As Bernard Shaw once said..."A reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. An unreasonable man persists in attempting to adapt his environment to suit himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man." I and millions of others have adapted to the times we live in and also the location. If girls were married when they reach puberty then I would practise it but it is not done anymore so I won't be doing it. Life has changed and formal education is a priority, pastoral societies still marry their girls at a very tender age.




>>- In 7th Century Arabia and most cultures around the world,
>a
>>girl becomes a woman when she hits Puberty.
>
>Just read that statement again and again and discover have
>blase it is. Why don't you also tell us " boys become men when
>they hit puberty, but for certain men puberty can come at the
>age of 52"?????????

The issue here is about girls, have you lost perspective? Why are you acting like a "dying man clutching on a straw"?



>>- Aisha moved in with the Prophet after she hit puberty,
>which
>>means she was considered "ready for marriage" according to
>the
>>prevailing norms.
>
>she didn't move in...she was taken in...there is a difference.
>What would a little child of 6 know about moving in with an
>older man??????


She wan't forced, if that's what you ae implying. Girls were married at a very early age and tehrefore the society prepares girls for this.



>>So what is your argument mzee? Are you ignorantly claiming
>>taht she moved in with the Prophet before puberty? Are you
>>ignoring these facts just as sajtas is just to push your
>>agenda through?
>
>here we go again, claiming to be victims of some "agenda" !!!!
>you cannot bear to accept the fact that your self appointed
>leader slept ( see i've been nice, i don't say screw any more,
>though its the same thing) with a 9 yr old ayesha. It's like a
>bad dream that won't go away.....you don't enjoy being
>reminded.....but it is the truth and you know it, Coach!


Well I've seen TM jump on the cartoon bandwagon just to score some brownie points with his "virtual congregation" and I've seen you repeatedly lash your 'wicked tongue' at anything that has to do with Islam, neither of you want to use logical discussions so what options am I left with? To either think you are crazy or people with a sinister intention which to discredit Islam at any given opportunity and by any menas necessary. It leans more towards the latter.

[TeamManager]

>Well I've seen TM jump on the cartoon bandwagon just to score
>some brownie points

@Coach,

Kijana, you see unlike you and your faith ...... I dont need to lash at Islam or Allah to maintain my faith.....the difference between us is that your faith is based on the bible being wrong/changed ...and thats where you put all Koran foundation. Secondly, your faith is based an some imaginary belief that we share the same God.

Hopeful you can admit that IF Christian faith is TRUE....then Islam will be the biggest LIE.

Peace!

[Coach]

>>Well I've seen TM jump on the cartoon bandwagon just to
>score
>>some brownie points
>
>@Coach,
>
>Kijana, you see unlike you and your faith ...... I dont need
>to lash at Islam or Allah to maintain my faith.....the
>difference between us is that your faith is based on the bible
>being wrong/changed ...and thats where you put all Koran
>foundation. Secondly, your faith is based an some imaginary
>belief that we share the same God.
>
>Hopeful you can admit that IF Christian faith is TRUE....then
>Islam will be the biggest LIE.
>
>Peace!


TM,
Islam did not come to fight Christianity but to continue where Jesus PBUH left off. You see my friend, ther was no Trinity, celibacy, praying to or wearing a cross etc when Jesus PBUH was alive. Islam recognises Christians (those who follow the true teachings of Christ) and the Qur'an says this about them...

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an 2:62)

Now does this sound like a faith that is based on bashing Christianity? In the verse above, Allah is what the Bible refers to as GOD, the Supreme Being. Not one of the three or any of the trinity but the SUPREME GOD. The same God that Jesus believed in and was crying to when he was about to be crucified and he said..."My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken Me?"

[satjas]

>
>
>TM,
>Islam did not come to fight Christianity but to continue where
>Jesus PBUH left off. You see my friend, ther was no Trinity,
>celibacy, praying to or wearing a cross etc when Jesus PBUH
>was alive. Islam recognises Christians (those who follow the
>true teachings of Christ) and the Qur'an says this about
>them...
>
>"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the
>Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any
>who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,
>shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no
>fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an 2:62)
>
>Now does this sound like a faith that is based on bashing
>Christianity?

No Coach it doesn't, but we all know your selective mentality primed by the frequent visits to the local madarasa way back then. And here's a reminder of what else was said as we read further on.....from your Kooran, now don't say i made this up, read on...


5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

Will Christians go to hell?

Christians will be burned in the Fire.

5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

> Not one of the three or
>any of the trinity but the SUPREME GOD. The same God that
>Jesus believed in and was crying to when he was about to be
>crucified and he said..."My God, My God, Why Have You Forsaken
>Me?"

Coach, can i just say that it will take eons for you to understand the concept of the holy trinity, but I'll try and break it down for you....so you can tell your kids what you were once told.....

The father, son and holy spirit......these are always interlinked...but not as the christians would want us to believe, try thinking God, people and spirituality. These 3 things will always be connected, there is no point at which you can say this one stops and now this one begins.....lemme give you some more.....

mind body and soul
past present and future
subconciousness, consciouness and superconsciousness
energy , matter and antimatter
here , there and the space in between
thought, word and action

if you can understand how these things are connected then you will understand why the 'holy trinity' came into being. I do not think its holy because ALL things are holy to me (omnipresence).

It would also be important for you to learn that life is not a process of discovery but of creation. We create as we go along. There can be nothing to discover if God already knows it is there. We simply don't. We are that part of God that has forgotten who it really is. But we are also that part of God that creates as we go along. can you understand this divine dichotomy? (apparent contradictions??)

-the paradigm shifter.....God's friend.


The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[Mbajuni]

>It would also be important for you to learn that life is not a
>process of discovery but of creation. We create as we go
>along. There can be nothing to discover if God already knows
>it is there. We simply don't. We are that part of God that has
>forgotten who it really is. But we are also that part of God
>that creates as we go along. can you understand this divine
>dichotomy? (apparent contradictions??)
>


I have never heard this idea before on being "that part of God that has forgotten who it really is" in relation to christianity. Can you please explain it more for my understanding...

[Coach]

sajtas,
>>TM,
>>Islam did not come to fight Christianity but to continue
>where
>>Jesus PBUH left off. You see my friend, ther was no Trinity,
>>celibacy, praying to or wearing a cross etc when Jesus PBUH
>>was alive. Islam recognises Christians (those who follow the
>>true teachings of Christ) and the Qur'an says this about
>>them...
>>
>>"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the
>>Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,-
>any
>>who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work
>righteousness,
>>shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no
>>fear, nor shall they grieve." (Qur'an 2:62)
>>



>5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah,
>son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel,
>worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth
>partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise.
>His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no
>helpers.
>
> Will Christians go to hell?
>
>Christians will be burned in the Fire.

Just go back and read what I said in the beginning about Islam taking on from where Jesus left off and you might understand.



>Coach, can i just say that it will take eons for you to
>understand the concept of the holy trinity, but I'll try and
>break it down for you....so you can tell your kids what you
>were once told.....
>The father, son and holy spirit......these are always
>interlinked...but not as the christians would want us to
>believe, try thinking God, people and spirituality. These 3
>things will always be connected, there is no point at which
>you can say this one stops and now this one begins.....lemme
>give you some more.....
>mind body and soul
>past present and future
>subconciousness, consciouness and superconsciousness
>energy , matter and antimatter
>here , there and the space in between
>thought, word and action
>
>if you can understand how these things are connected then you
>will understand why the 'holy trinity' came into being. I do
>not think its holy because ALL things are holy to me
>(omnipresence).


According to your logic, everything is inter-linked, so would it be fair to say that everything is God? You see, here is where you and Chritsians like TM depart, for you are a pantheist and Christians are monotheists who became polytheistic by ascribing to the notion of three gods.




>It would also be important for you to learn that life is not a
>process of discovery but of creation. We create as we go
>along. There can be nothing to discover if God already knows
>it is there. We simply don't. We are that part of God that has
>forgotten who it really is. But we are also that part of God
>that creates as we go along. can you understand this divine
>dichotomy? (apparent contradictions??)

I understand what you aer saying but that is far from me saying I accept it. As I've told you many a times before, creation is not something man can do, man can NOT create something out of nothing, we only use the materials available to us that has ben created by the Creator. Know the difference; creation - Creator, big difference! Man can never be the latter. You can get into semantics if you wish to complicate this, but I think you know what I'm referring to.

[satjas]

Hey Coach

>Just go back and read what I said in the beginning about Islam
>taking on from where Jesus left off and you might understand.

i did, but i doubt very much MooHamMad carried on the good work of Jesus....these guys were miles apart......even you know that coach

>According to your logic, everything is inter-linked,

Yes, and that is so true.....even where you are right now there is an air molecule next to you, next to another, next to another all the way up to me...and everyone else..so YES we are interlinked, right up to the physical level as well......Are you now going to say that I have made this up or does it make sense to you????


> so would
>it be fair to say that everything is God?

the sum of all is God, the essence of each is God. God is everything= everything is God. which is what is meant by omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscient, all at the same time.....do you see the link with the 'trinity' here as well?????

>You see, here is
>where you and Chritsians like TM depart, for you are a
>pantheist and Christians are monotheists who became
>polytheistic by ascribing to the notion of three gods.

You do yourself dis-service by not understanding that I do not think that these are all small individual gods with different attributes.......This is totally different from thinking that ALL, collectively and individually IS God, for it can be no other, unless there is another...is there?????No!!


>I understand what you aer saying but that is far from me
>saying I accept it.

I am not asking you to accept what i say...by all means question me all the time, but thanks for understanding what i had to say.

> As I've told you many a times before,
>creation is not something man can do, man can NOT create
>something out of nothing, we only use the materials available
>to us that has ben created by the Creator.

you see if you could explain to me how/what you understood the electron to be as i asked you in the other post then i would follow up by explaining how this bit here comes about. But i'll give you an idea......ALL creation comes from a thought. A thought is simply pure energy. When the thought process is slowed down extremely it creates matter.......E = M c2......E, thought, idea, c2 speed of thought, M the matter created.......take your time to think about this.....it will make sense in the end.

On that same note remember also God cannot make something out of nothing.......where would God get that 'nothing' from if God is all there is???



>Know the
>difference; creation - Creator, big difference! Man can never
>be the latter.

Oh yes man can.....man is not God so don't try accusing me of saying that. But man , trees , houses,things and everything summed up makes God, the Total.......it may help if you can visualize many little God's all adding up to this one gigantic God. And of this fraction make humankind like 0.00000001% to get a jist of just how insignificant man is.....then you'll get the picture i am trying to paint.

>You can get into semantics if you wish to
>complicate this, but I think you know what I'm referring to.

I think i have a clue as to your understanding, you are finding it difficult to understand the concept of the creator and His creation being as One since from childhood you've been told they are separate, yet regret the fact that you never asked why??? i.e if this is God (creator) then what do we call this? (creation) ......not a part of God????

-the paradigm shifter......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[TeamManager]

>According to your logic, everything is inter-linked, so would
>it be fair to say that everything is God? You see, here is
>where you and Chritsians like TM depart, for you are a
>pantheist and Christians are monotheists who became
>polytheistic by ascribing to the notion of three gods.

@Coach,

Christians believe that there is only ONE God. Hopefully one day you will have the courage to investigate the true christian concept of Trinity ..... maybe one!
Your defination of Christians departing is an "Islamic belief" of chritianity.