facts not fiction

satjas · (#1 (**permalink**))

hey y'all

Perhaps we ought to compile a fact file.....something we can all agree with universally. I shall start with a few facts. Please feel free to add any factual points on the list. Thank you.

1. Jeesus did not write the bible

2. Jeesus did not introduce christianity, in fact he was anti- religion.

3. MooHamMad did not write the kooran.

4. MooHamMad started Islam....and his example is to be emulated by Muslims.

5. Good does not exist

6. Good exists.

7. Freedom of speech could not exist if we cannot mention both points 5 and 6.

8. The daanger of watching Kaartoons is now known.....and it's effects.

9. Reeligion is the opium of the masses- Kaarl Marx.

10. At 52, MooHamMad had a wife, Ayesha aged 9.....it lead to...

11. Jeesus had a relationship with a prostitute....it never lead to...

12. According to the bible gays should be killed,Leviticus 20:13 says "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

13. According to the kooran gays should be killed,Prophet Muhammad to justify the death penalty : "Whoever you find committing the sin of the people of Lut, kill them, both the one who does it and the one to whom it is done." (At-Tirmidhi: 1376)

14. When peeople were killed in Daarfur and Rwanda, we (the world) watched....we did nothing.

15. When kaartoons were watched in Denmark and iRan people were killed......we did nothing.

16. Islaam does not mean peace, it means submission.

17. Jeesus never went to a christian church.

18. Chriistianity was spread by the use of a sword.

19. Islaam is spread by the use of a sword.....http://www.worthynews.com/news-featu...eansing-8.html

20. All the facts above are not fiction....or contorted.

21. Debate if done sensibly with reasonable Human beings yields results.

please add some more.....

-The paradigm shifter......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

Coach · (#2 (**permalink**))

>Debate if done sensibly with reasonable Human beings yields results.

The irony here is just remarkable! You must belong to those who are not reasonable. I invited you to discuss/debate several of the issues you mentionned above but you either ignored what I was saying or was MIA. This is why most of our discussions have not yieldd any results and you keep regurgitating your points.

satjas · (#3 (**permalink**))

hey coach

>The irony here is just remarkable! You must belong to those
>who are not reasonable.

perhaps you have already concluded that about me......if i were not reasonable i would've been elsewhere.

>I invited you to discuss/debate
>several of the issues you mentionned above but you either
>ignored what I was saying or was MIA.

I have asked you simple questions which only require a yes /no answer but then you start impressing us with your knowledge, or lack thereof from the kooran. Here's one yes/no question...did MuuHamMad at 52 sleep with a 9 year old girl Ayesha? Here's another, do you Coach find that reasonable/appropriate??

secondly i have not been MIA, i've been observing from a distance....the thing is muslims always try to justify their religion as the one and only correct one. There is absolutely no tolerance for any other point of view even if it makes sense. And you know it makes sense, but you have been told from an early age (madarasa school as you mentioned) that you guys are special and everyone else is sub-human(apes and pigs). The current world status shows this. The violent reaction to anything considered against "islam" depicts a controlling narcississtic attitude towards others. The really sad thing is that most of you guys have not truly read the kooran to understand it. It seems to me that the louder you scream you know the kooran the more easily you will be believed. And if one group shouts less than the rest then it is considered apostasy.

> This is why most of our
>discussions have not yieldd any results and you keep
>regurgitating your points.

Just the way it was drummed into us at an early age 2x2=4 2x2=4 2x2=4.....we were constantly reminded, that it became second nature. I mention these points again and again but you always dodge and come up with unneccessary garbage. I also do not want to cause bitterness simply because i express what i feel and you do not and cannot tolerate it.

lastly, i was hoping ATLian and TM etc you would help compile this list?

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

TeamManager · (#4 (**permalink**))

>lastly, i was hoping ATLian and TM etc you would help compile
>this list?

I real what to understand your and the mashada athetist purpose......could you please post one thread defending your stand with any anti-christian/muslim comments...... simply tell us why you are an athetist etc .....and not why you are not a christian/muslim etc

Coach · (#5 (**permalink**))

sajtas,

>I have asked you simple questions which only require a yes /no
>answer but then you start impressing us with your knowledge,
>or lack thereof from the kooran. Here's one yes/no
>question...did MuuHamMad at 52 sleep with a 9 year old girl
>Ayesha? Here's another, do you Coach find that
>reasonable/appropriate??

You didn't as a simple question, in case you forgot what you did, let me remind you. You called the Prophet a paedophile because he got married to Aisha when she was 9 years old. Seeing this, I responded by explaining to you that norms in Semitic cultures were that the barometer used to determine when a child becomes an adult in those days was puberty. I also pointed out to you that such marriages were not uncommon in all Semitic cultures (incl Jews). But you being suchan Islamophobe, want me to condemn the actions of the Prophet using values that are practised over 1400 years after his death. You could do with reading a bit about moral relativism.

>secondly i have not been MIA, i've been observing from a
>distance....the thing is muslims always try to justify their
>religion as the one and only correct one. There is absolutely
>no tolerance for any other point of view even if it makes
>sense. And you know it makes sense, but you have been told
>from an early age (madarasa school as you mentioned) that you
>guys are special and everyone else is sub-human(apes and
>pigs). The current world status shows this. The violent
>reaction to anything considered against "islam" depicts a
>controlling narcississtic attitude towards others.

In Islam there is no compulsion in religion, if you want to worship a statue, you are free to do it as it is only God that judges the choices we make. There are some intolerant Muslims justas there are intolerant Jews, Christians, Hindus etc. Thisis not solely peculiar to Islam but you have to believe it is to justify your hatred.

There is freedom of worship, but that doesn't mean that one is free to mock and insult others faith. Some Muslims reacted wrongly, but that (if you are a rational person) is not to used as an excuse to label Islam.

The really
>sad thing is that most of you guys have not truly read the
>kooran to understand it. It seems to me that the louder you
>scream you know the kooran the more easily you will be
>believed.

It is true that the people who get attention of the media haven't really understand the message of the Qur'an. But that doesn't mean that MUSLIMS in general are like that.

satjas · (#6 (**permalink**))

hey coach

you have done it once again, you are unable to give us a yes/no answer

>did MuuHamMad at 52 sleep with a 9 year old girl
>>Ayesha? Here's another, do you Coach find that
>>reasonable/appropriate??

How hard are those questions?? Perhaps Mbajuni can help you on this..care to try?

>It is true that the people who get attention of the media
>haven't really understand the message of the Qur'an. But that
>doesn't mean that MUSLIMS in general are like that.

true, that is a good statement. In fact most muslims are not even muslims, they only happen to have been born in a family that practised islam. They have no clue what the real islam is all about. But when they get enlightened upon reading the Kooran, they run....like ayan hirsi did.

-the paradigm shifter.....God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

Coach · (#7 (**permalink**))

sajtas,

>hey coach
>
>you have done it once again, you are unable to give us a
>yes/no answer

You can not ask a question and then dictate the response you wish to get. What is the age of puberty? Is that when adulthood starts? Is that when a girl gets her periods and can become pregnant? Is that when girls got married in 7th century Arabia? You see, it is not my place to dictate the age of the bride, if the prophet did something that was unheard of at his time, then I would be giving you another answer, but since he was a man living in 7th century Arabia, rode camels and horses, he was a man of his time doing things people did in 7th century Arabia. If you can't comprehend things in its proper context then I'm wasting my time. I know you aren't this obtuse.

>>It is true that the people who get attention of the media
>>haven't really understand the message of the Qur'an. But
>that
>>doesn't mean that MUSLIMS in general are like that.
>
>true, that is a good statement. In fact most muslims are not
>even muslims, they only happen to have been born in a family
>that practised islam. They have no clue what the real islam is
>all about. But when they get enlightened upon reading the
>Kooran, they run....like ayan hirsi did.

Anything that agrees with your stance is good and anything that goes against it is bad, what is the difference between you and extremists? Ayan Hirsi is a confused woman who has abandonned her faith because she was awed by the western civilisation. Instead of living her life and letting others do what they like, she started an offensive and insulted Islam and Muslims. Now she got van Gogh killed, the extremists are on her heels and she needs 24hour protection otherwise she'll be killed. Totally unnecessary.

The two groups of people who work the EXTREMES always get the media attention and naive people like you are imbibed in it all. Rushdie, Ayan Hirsi, Irshad Manji et al. are people who used to be Muslims and get funding and protection to do what they do - attack Islam. On the other hand you have extremists who feed off their repugnant bile the spew and end up doing some crazy violent things. The simple-minded and unintelligent people are distracted by both extremists camps whereas those with intellect can clealry tell that both camps don't represent Islam but their own warped ideology. I see where you stand, what a shame!

satjas · (#8 (**permalink**))

Hey Coach

> On the other hand you have extremists
>who feed off their repugnant bile the spew and end up doing
>some crazy violent things.

They are normally.....normal guys like the ones who committed the 7/7 bombings in london......did they look like extremists to you???

> The simple-minded and unintelligent
>people are distracted by both extremists camps whereas those
>with intellect can clealry tell that both camps don't
>represent Islam but their own warped ideology.

So in one bold statement you are saying that only stupid people follow a stupid ideology? Or did i get it wrong? That only stupid people follow a good ideology? That leaves the clever people following something else right?

> I see where you
>stand, what a shame!

Hey no need to be ashamed of me.....i stand with the stupid, the down trodden, the tortured, the poor unintelligent riff-raff........certainly I have that choice have i not?
Do not be ashamed for a fellow human being (or ape or pig), especially do not be ashamed because i do not agree with your ideology.........only a person who has something to hide can be ashamed....... I stand here naked, with the truth that you find so repugnant......my truth.

-the paradigm shifter.......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

satjas · (#9 (**permalink**))

Hey Coach

as butt naked at the day one was born.....with no hijab