[Mbajuni]

>I found this site very interesting (will read your posting
>later)
>
>The writter conviniently picks verses such as Acts2:11 to show/stress the ARAB presence, in
>other words the website author accepts that the book of Acts
>is a TRUE historical record
>
>BUT he conviniently misses out the MOST IMPORTANT issue
>concerning the WONDERS OF GOD message ....... WHICH is
>
>Acts2:38-39

>WHY doesnt he also accept the primary message as EQUALLY TRUE.
>The only reason is that it would go totally against the
>Islamic message cause it will expose muslims (just like all
>others) as sinners in need of Jesus' saving grace.


Lol! Your comment goes to show you truly did not read the WHOLE website. I think you need to re-read it again TM and THEN come posting a comment.

Firstly, the author does not quote Acts 2:38-39 because that is not related to his thesis. The discussion here is not whether we should repent our sins in the name of Jesus or not but the thesis is that Christians are ignorant of the Arabs relation to Christianity based on their own bible. To quote directly from the website(Since it appears like you didn't read it well)...

"In arguing their case against the Biblical prophecies of the Prophet of Islam in the Bible, many of the learned (and ignorant) Christians have resorted to speaking of the Arabs as an alien entity, as if they resided on the North American continent or Australia; far far away from all the Biblical scenery mentioned in the Bible. As if the Hebrews had no more than scant knowledge about their Arab brethren, then the Eskimos of Alaska had about the Zulus of South Africa. This is shown by the fact that the issue is not brought out into the open for discussion."

THESIS:
"As I intend to show, the Arabs formed an important component in the trade and commerce, wars, and so on of the region as did the Jews in those very same events and the normal everyday life. Much of what is stated here is based solely on the Bible.."

The author DOES use the bible quotes TRUE. But obviously there is no point using the Quran to prove that Islam and Christianity are the smae because YOU (the critics) do not believe in it DUH! So obviosly he/she has to use your own words and book. It's like someone telling you you are wrong because I say so???!!! Like HELLO!!

He/she uses it to put it IN YOUR FACE you could say (excuse the straightforwardness). It's like you guys signed a statement of admission and then came to the courtroom and denied your guilt. What the author is doing is bringing that statement forward and saying...eh bana! You say you are innocent lakiiiiiini...si your statement says this and that ..so please explain yourself...
In doing so...he/she does not automatically say you spoke the truth the first time. In contrast...it goes to highlight the lies and hypocrisy as you change your mind and try and HIDE the truth of the matter.

The author does not say ANYWHERE that he/she believes Acts to be an authentic source. As a matter of fact Muslims DO NOT believe in the new testament AT ALL!! The author simply points out that Christians are being hypocritical by outcasting the Muslims using YOUR holy book, whereas YOUR holy book has the Arabs mentioned as worshipping the Same God i.e.

"Cretes and Arabians we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God" (Acts 2:11)

He does not say that the Bible is an accurate account of history at all. He instead says that with the revision of the Bible, the word Arabia has been changed to "Desert Plain" to mask the relation between Christians and Muslims today. As a matter of fact at the end of the website he quotes the quran in saying..

"Ye People of the Book! (Jews and Christians) Why do ye clothe Truth with falsehood, and conceal the Truth, while ye have knowledge?"
(Sura Al-Imran 3.071)

He does not NEED to quote Acts to show that we are of the same kind. The Quran itself says that..

(29.46) And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit.

WE muslims accept our whole Quran and admit that we are of the same people. The problem is that nyinyi bado mumekaa mukishindana tu although YOUR new testament that you claim to be God's word says so too. The author basically quotes the verses of the Bible to show how YOU Christians are the ones picking and choosing because YOU claim to BELIEVE in the new testament yet YOU deny that the Arabs worshipped the same God.

Please be careful next time you start pointing fingers and saying that we are the ones picking and choosing. The new testament is not OUR book after all...If YOU believe that Acts is legitimate (WHICH YOU MUST) then why do YOU deny that we Muslims worship the same God TM??

So my dear TM (Using your own words) it is YOU who is conviniently missing out the MOST IMPORTANT issues "concerning the WONDERS OF GOD message..." WHY don't YOU "also accept the primary message as EQUALLY TRUE"???The only reason is that it would go totally against the" christian "message cause it will expose" Muslims as a legitimate faith believing in the same God.

Stop shifting the blame of the crime on the person who doesn't even own the gun!! It's your book, your gun...We are just here to point out your crime of giving some verses in YOUR book the blind eye...FULL STOP, COMMA, COMMA, DASH, DASH! (Reminiscing those primo' days).

[satjas]

Since I was asked to comment, in turn i asked the Big One to intervene and the conversation went something like this.


TM: There is only one God.

Coach: There is only one Allah, and MooHamMad(Pbuh) is his only and final messenger

God: I am the one you are talking about!!!!!

TM: is that you God, Yahweh?

Coach: is that you Allah?

God: It is me, the one and only everything.

TM & Coach (bickering): yahweh allah yahweh allah yahweh allah!!!

God: If ultimately you think there is only One of me then it follows that you seem to call me by different names.

ATlian: I don't believe you exist God.

God: fine, you are entitled to that opinion too.

TM: Yahweh, how's Jesus, the right hand main man??!!!!

Coach: allah, how's MooHamMad, the final messenger??!!!

God: they are both fine, abit disappointed in you both though

TM & Coach ( in unison): why??????

God: because you guys kiss too much butt instead of thinking rationaly for yourselves.

Coach: but allah, you have already send us the final message, we have no need to think anything for ourselves, we are happy with your message, we follow it to the letter.

God: who said it was the Final message? Do you think I would stop communicating with the people of the world???

Coach: But allah, you yourself said it in the kooran, you revealed it to MooHamMad.

God: Did I? I ask you here coach, did I?? how sure can you be that it was me and something that someone added to the texts??

Coach: aha, so you admit that you send that message?

God: No, I never said that. you guys invented that, I simply let you do as you please, that's my job.

Coach: you simply sit and watch as our people are being killed in palestine, iraq, afghanistan?

God: I also watch when people are killed in new york, madrid, london, beslan and bali.

Coach: why don't you take care of your people, the muslims. we fight for you, we want everyone to know you allah, oh merciful one!!!
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day... Nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (taxes) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Surah 9:29

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait (ambush) for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity then open the way for them." Surah 9:5 (see also Surah 2:193)

"Therefore; when ye meet the unbelievers (in a fight) smite at their necks; at length;
when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly in (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens." Surah 47:4



God: and you want me to ignore the rest?? as if they are not my creation.

Coach: no they are your creation too, but we are superior as we are muslims....Islam teaches that Muslims are superior to others.

"Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind..." Surah 3:110


God: Hmm, if i said that then that would not make me a fair God would it??

Coach: I am not allowed to say anything against you allah.

God: But nothing can be against me, don't you see??

Coach: How about those cartoons? they mocked our prophet, pbuh.

God: How did they do that when you even have no idea what MooHamMad looks like in the first place? It could have been anybody???

Coach: But it was directed towards muslims, your people.

God: You ALL....ALL of you, not just muslims are my people, including ATLian.

TM (feeling sidelined): If only these people read the Good Book.

God: Don't believe everything you read TM, including this.

TM: Then i will lose direction. I am nothing without the bible, I am nothing without Jesus, therefore the bible is nothing without jesus and jesus is nothing without the bible, hence the bible is nothing.....NO!!! I didn't say that, I am confused, jesus help me please.

Jesus: here we go again....

God: you guys need to start thinking for yourselves instead of relying on notes that were taken ages ago.

Coach: i am still not satisfied

God: you never will unless you get out of that mindset.....I am the God of all people, not just yours. and that goes for you TM as well.

-the paradigm shifter......God's friend.



The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[Coach]

satjas,


>Coach: why don't you take care of your people, the muslims. we
>fight for you, we want everyone to know you allah, oh merciful
>one!!!
>"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the last day... Nor
>acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the
>people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya (taxes) with
>willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." Surah 9:29
>
>"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay
>the pagans wherever ye find them and seize them, beleaguer
>them, and lie in wait (ambush) for them in every stratagem (of
>war); but if they repent and establish regular prayers and
>practice regular charity then open the way for them." Surah
>9:5 (see also Surah 2:193)
>
>"Therefore; when ye meet the unbelievers (in a fight) smite at
>their necks; at length;
>when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly in
>(on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or
>ransom, until the war lays down its burdens." Surah 47:4



First of all, I'd like to ask you not to insult the Prophet by spelling his name in that manner. If you genuinely don't know how to spell his name then I'll give you a helping hand; it is Muhammad or Mohamed. Secondly, I'd to adress the verses you mentionned above AGAIN (as I've done this before but you seem to have forgotten). Enemies of Islam love these verses and often use them to mislead and misinform those ignorant about Islam about. Read carefully, hopefully you'll comprehend better this time and you'll be enlightenned...



Quran and Hadith on Religious Persecution
No compulsion in religion

This article has two sections. The first is a brief explanation of Quranic verses that are often mistaken as instructions to persecute Non-Muslims. The second section features verses from the Quran and Hadith that vehemently insist on religious tolerance and the idea of "no compulsion in religion." God willing, Non-Muslims as well as our Muslim brothers and sisters who resort to violence, will take these verses into consideration.

Anti-Islamic people often use the following verses to justify the stereotype that Islam is a religion of violence and intolerance, which was spread by the sword. The explanations here were aided by Abdullah Yusuf Ali's commentary on the Holy Quran.


Sura 8.12 "Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them."


Sura 9.5 "When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them."


Sura 47.4 "When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives."

Sura 8 is about a BATTLE - the Battle of Badr - not just some daily affair. A battles take two side to occur. Are you under the impression that while these 'horrid' Muslims were fighting, the enemies were simply standing there like good little peaceful men?

Sura 47 was revealed during the first year of Hijrah when the Muslims were under *threat of extinction* by invasion from Makkah.

Sura 9 is interesting. Non-Muslims almost invariably quote verse 5 but leave out verse 4 and 6. Why? Because verse 4 says, "But the treatires are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom you have entered into alliance and who have you subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God Loves the righteous."

And verse 6 says, "If one among the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the Word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure."

So basically what has been done above is:

1. The background to each sura was shown. One cannot take a verse revealed for a battle and insist it is if for the daily affairs of Muslims.

2. It was shown how Non-muslims who wish to attack Islam, conveniently leave out verses before and after their quoted verse. Above, I have shown only one of the many examples.



Section II

This long list of verses from the Holy Quran and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) show that Islam at it's core and at its source is a religion of peace. Terrorists who persecute innocent people because of their faith are not welcome - their use of Islam as a scapegoat, does not make Islam what they portray it to be.

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.


16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).


6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.


4:79, 80 (Say to everyone of them,) 'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have (O Prophet) sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."


11:28 (Noah to his people) He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If 1 act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°


17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith.


21:107 to 109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (of Judgment) is near or far."


22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do."


88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.


48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the (task of spreading) Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every (false) religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.


36:16, 17 (Three Messengers to their people)Said (the Messengers), "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'


39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.


42:6, 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....


64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.


67:25, 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner."


60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.


60:9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.



The teachings of the Prophet on how you and I should treat our Non-Muslim friends and neighbours on a day to day basis as well as how to government should treat a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state.

"He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet." (Bukhari, Muslim)

"Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God." (Bukhari)

"He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement." (Bukhari)

"Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him." (Al-Mawardi)

"Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise." (Bukhari)

[Coach]

I forgot to add the source:

http://www.themodernreligion.com/ter...sm_verses1.htm

[Mbajuni]

You took the words out of my mouth Coach...

It saddens me how the same way terrorists contort the meaning of the Holy Quran, what I thought was the more intelligent lot of you do the same to fit your own personal gains. Allah knew a lot like the terrorist and yourself would come sometime in the future that He said:

(The Family of Imran. 3.7)
"He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding."


please read an other posts in reference to similar issues...
http://www.mashada.com/forums/index....=&topic_page=5

http://www.mashada.com/forums/index....=&topic_page=4

[reggie_woic]

I was raised as a xtian and i still don't know much about other religions....and for some reason, i don't feel like i really should because we are taught that curiosity about other religions is like 'veering off' your faith, which is a sin.

This is i'm sure the same for all other religions; they believe in theirs soo mush that they don't give others a chance.

So whether or not Moses and Jesus were Muslims, we will all meet our respective fates at the end...I'll concentrate on making mine as pleasant and painless as possible.

http://malone.blogs.com/genius/Stewie.jpg