[TeamManager]

@Kida lipo

Its a long time since i last read a comment from you. Otherwise I hope madam and your young child are all fine.

Back to the topic, my brief answer ......

People should NEVER assume that any other religious organisation that speaks about Jesus, Moses, Abraham etc are nessesarily speaking about the same Jesus, Moses, Abraham recorded in the BIBLE.

Islam, Mormons, Moons all claim that they are somehow related to Jesus ....... BUT its only a claim or a belief. Nothing more nothing less. By 'relating themselves' to the God in the bible, they somehow try to justify the authentisity.

One common lie perpetuate by people (including many christians) is that Muslims also desend from Abraham. I am simply ask for evidence .... any recording of geneologies, archelogical findings or even passed down stories etc.

Secondly, the God recorded in the Bible is DIFFERENT from Allah.

ON ANTIOCH

When you read the book of ACTS you will notice that followers of Jesus were basically called people of 'the way' until much later when they were first called Christians at Antioch. The Gospel was preached by many missionaries including Paul before the name came into being.


>Team Manager, Satjas(sp)..and fellow xtians. I was having a
>conversation with a muslim colleague and he pointed out that
>Moses and Jesus were muslims. That christianity was preached
>by paul and it is in
>Antioch that the name christian first started way after jesus
>departure-
>how authentic is this?

Hope one day your muslim colleague will come to realise that we DONT worship the same God.

[Kida_lipo]

Hey T.Manager,

The family is well thanks.

Thank you again for those pointers people-- see, it gets a lil clouded somewhere along the scripts and it needs a lil clarification hapa na pale.
As keminokana sed, the origins of christianity & muslim is really from cousins (no?) and believers of either can make assumptions.



...Aint stopping till the fat lady sings

[ATLian]

>People should NEVER assume that any other religious
>organisation that speaks about Jesus, Moses, Abraham etc are
>nessesarily speaking about the same Jesus, Moses, Abraham
>recorded in the BIBLE.
>
>Islam, Mormons, Moons all claim that they are somehow related
>to Jesus ....... BUT its only a claim or a belief.

TM,

the question an uninformed by-stander would ask is, how do you know that it's your version that's correct? How do you know that your Jesus, Abraham and Moses is the original one, and not the remixed version? How can you prove that Muslims aren't related to Jesus? How do you know that god didn't speak to that founder of Mormonism the same way he spoke to other ptrophets in the Bible?



>One common lie perpetuate by people (including many
>christians) is that Muslims also desend from Abraham.

This always amuses/amazes me. Abraham was an Arab from the Middle East. What makes you think that you, a black Kenyan, are descended directly from Abraham ONLY because you are a Christian - and yet those Arabs in the Middle East are not ONLY because they are Muslims ? That's the same question I ask my blond blue-eyed Christian pals in Atlanta who vehently claim they are Abrahams direct descendants, but the local Arabs who still live where Abraham lived aren't. WTF? That's like saying that if I converted to Christianity, I'd suddenly be a descendant of Abraham, or if you converted to Islam you'd no longer be a descendant of Abraham.



>Secondly, the God recorded in the Bible is DIFFERENT from
>Allah.

I agree with you here.

[E.A.20]

can anyone here please tell me why we as africans should believe in someone who was brought to us by white people? what about what we believed in b4 they came?

[KEMINOKANA]

TM,
13 These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, 14 Mishma, Dumah, Massa, 15 Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. 16 These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. 17 Altogether, Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. 18 His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the border of Egypt, as you go toward Asshur. And they lived in hostility toward [c] all their brothers. GEN 25:13-18

I find the key words NEAR THE BORDER OF EGYPT and HOSTILITY TOWARD ALL THEIR BROTHERS to be key pointers themselves. Who else lives near the border of egypt other than Arabs?


This link might be helpful to your inquiries.

http://nabataea.net/12tribes.html.

[Coach]

>@Kida lipo

>People should NEVER assume that any other religious
>organisation that speaks about Jesus, Moses, Abraham etc are
>nessesarily speaking about the same Jesus, Moses, Abraham
>recorded in the BIBLE.

TM,
Can you prove that the Jesus in Islam is not Jesus Christ son of Mary?

[Msoto]

>Secondly, the God recorded in the Bible is DIFFERENT from
>Allah.


I dont know if Allah is God or if Allah is not God.

However I disagree with the notion that a human being..who is not omnipotent...not omniscient...can claim to state that it is this and not that or this and neither that. It is beyond the realm of a human being to pretend to have the aptitude of such understanding...we are by nature inferior beings. We as human beings can/do believe that Allah is most righteous and blessed and his will is our way of life. We as human beings can/do believe that God is most righteous and blessed and his will is our way. We as human beings can even have other alternate views of what the Supreme Being is. However that in and of itself does not make us the custodians of truth and ascertain that He is like this or similar to this....and not that. That sphere of influence is beyond our realm of comprehension...unless we were omnipotent or omniscient.

To make such an assertion..is impracticle and unbelievable in any sense.....if we are all believers of a supreme being...then we cannot begin by saying this Supreme Being is different from that one...or the same as that Supreme being. By nature of being a Supreme Being...an inferior being...a human cannot then ascertain that Supreme Beings are different.

Is it possible for an ant to have the visionary and analytical skills to differentiate two human beings? It is more likely and more accurate to postulate and argue why a human being can have the visionary skills to differentiate between two ants and not vice versa.

There is Allah God? I dont know...I am not in a position to answer as to if there are the same or if they are different. I am after all a simple inferior human being.

[Coach]

>I dont know if Allah is God or if Allah is not God.

Msoto,
Some people think (including TM here) that Allah is some special Deity that belongs excusively to Muslims. In Arabic, Allah (Al-Lah) or Elah (El-Lah) in Aramaic - which people usually call Hebrew script - means The God and is used only for The Supreme God, Yahweh, or any other name that one wishes to call Him.

[blowfish]

>Kida Lipo & blowfish,
>All Muslims consider Jesus and Moses (Peace and blessings be
>upon them) to be Muslims.

Interesting.
The accounts of Jesus' techings as recorded in both the Quran and the Bible dont differ a lot. What i dont understand is why Muslims wont follow the teachings of a prophet they consider one of their greatest, but will be quick to say 'ni wetu'. am talking of the core doctrines of loving and forgiving and turning the other cheek etcetera. Reminds me of when Jesus was reprimanding the pharisees for speaking highly of the prophets and making nice tombs for them but never obeying them.

seems to me like his name (issah massih) found its way into the Quran mistakenly - but then again Jesus was to be found in the most unlikely places fishing for thirsty souls! in the synagogue, at the clubs, at the tax-collectors', makaburini, on the cross..and now in the Quran!

[blowfish]

>can anyone here please tell me why we as africans should
>believe in someone who was brought to us by white people? what
>about what we believed in b4 they came?

i used to ask the same thing. i read somewhere in the bible [one of paul's letters] that 'when the perfect came the imperfect was phased out' [nimeparaphrase but the meaning is intact].
in a way, i consider our former beliefs as to have been custodians over us while the Perfect was coming. and now that the embodiment of what we sought is here, why continue to seek.
somewhere else [nadhani collosians] paul says that they were 'a shadow of things to come'. would you rather the real thing or the shadow?

unless your problem is with the colour of the messengers..