[DREADMAN]

sorry I had to share this! although I divorced believing in the creator in the roman fashion way.

they all have the word "MAN" in them.

"MAN" & "WOMBMAN/WOMAN"

[mpararo]

Thats why it's good and healthy to question the bible. these books were supposedly written by men under the inspiration of God. so much for inspiration....sometimes you wonder whether God had a part in this male chauvinism .

[milanya]

There was a time when the disciples asked Jesus what would happen if a woman was married, her husband died, then she married again and they both died. In heaven, to whom would she be married. Jesus said to them that they were thinking in terms of human beings. In heaven people would live as angels and such things would not concern them. Same thing here, God is neither male nor female. The bible was written by a largely patrichial society and they had to refer to God in a human way, so they naturally picked the male. As for Jesus being a man - same answer to why wasnt Jesus black, asian, white but Hebrew. Because do you think anyone would have taken him seriously if he was a woman in that time period and that culture. That question bugs me sometimes. I am just like, you know, Jesus was a radical, they had seen nothing like him before. I think God should have given them a true radical - a black woman! Can you imagine the surprise

[TeamManager]

>i dont know the connection between this verse and the one
>above, but it seems to me women were created as an
>after-thought brought about by Adam's need for help.

Atleast we can see that none of the living creatures Adam saw were on equal footing with him. Each came with from its own chracteristics - nature, form and habit.

Incase you are interested I googled some more information (below).

Q: Does Gen 2:18-22 show that women were created as an afterthought, as one claims?

A: No, it shows just the opposite. God took a great deal of time, with Adam having to name the animals and all, to demonstrate to Adam his need for a mate. Most of the things in Genesis 1 and 2 were simply created with little explanation. However, God first "set the stage" and explained her purpose as Adam’s co-laborer before creating Eve.

Q: Does Gen 2:18 show that women are inferior to men, since Eve was made differently from Adam?

A: No it does not. Six points to consider in the answer.

1. Different does not prove unequal. Different people speak different languages, but that does not mean every language is either inferior or superior to another. As one Christian said, Eve was not made from Adam’s foot to be under him, nor from his head to be above him, but from his side to be with him.
2. Helper does not mean inferior. Some might think that Eve was less than Adam because she was a "helper" in Genesis 2:18. However, God is our helper (same Hebrew word) in Psalm 70:5 and this does not mean God is inferior to us! Thus translating the Hebrew as "helpmate" is rather imprecise. A better translation is ‘I will make a power [or strength] corresponding to man.’ according to Walter Kaiser’s detailed study of the Hebrew in Hard Sayings of the Bible p.92-94. So the woman is to be a "full partner" and not just an assistant.
3. Genesis 1:27 shows both are in the image of God. It was not just Adam that is in the image of God, but both male and female are in the image of God. By the way, being in the "image of God" in no way means God is limited to having two feet, two hands, a stomach etc. Rather, as a two-dimensional image is an imperfect outline of a real, three-dimensional object, the character of the infinite God and our finite being have some similarities.

4. Equal in nature, value, importance, etc. In the Bible, Galatians 3:28 says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." (NIV)

5. Yet different in role: Ephesians 5:22-24 shows that wives are to submit to their husbands, for husbands are the head of the wife. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church in Ephesians 5:25-26. Paul said that women were not to teach men or have authority over men in 1 Timothy 2:12.

6. How does this work out in practice?

6.1 Deborah was a godly judge of Israel in Judges 4-5. Based on this, I would have no difficulty voting for a woman for president.

6.2 They could inherit things, including land in Numbers 36:8.

6.3 For a more thorough description of how a wife is to be a full partner with her husband, read Proverbs 31:10-31.
Among other things it says:
She works with her hands (Prov 31:13,22) and profits from this in Prov 31:24,31.
She shops for food (Prov 31:14) and cooks. Prov 31:15
She manages others. Prov 31:15
She herself decides to buy real-estate in Prov 31:16.
She plants a vineyard. Prov 31:16 (Note that a family does not own an entire vineyard just for their personal consumption; it was a source of profit.)
She is physically strong. Prov 31:17
She also trades, not just for necessity but for profit. Prov 31:18
She herself gives to the poor. (She had to have control over money to do so.) Prov 31:20
She manages the household. Prov31:21
She is wise, and teaches wisdom. Prov 31:26
In summary: Women are not inferior to men in nature, value or importance. They do have a different role than men, as any expectant mother can tell you.

[nefertiti]

Interesting that someone has said that Jesus could have been a black woman. For one IT MATTERS a lot in my opinion that his race has so drastically been changed to suit the current 'economically' top one-white. Doesn't the Bible clearly describe this man as having had wooly hair? And doesn't the history of migrations of the past clearly indicate that this man could not possibly have been blue eyed straight haired and fair skinned? If he was Perfect just as God intended, then why should followers change him? Why? Why do people say it doesn't matter? If it didn't matter then why change him? And how many other things have been changed that are equally important that have gone unquestioned because people think 'it doesn't matter'?

ATR (African religons) and actually most pagan religions belived in God(s) as woman. Because there were no sex battles like you see today,both men and women did not have control/dominance issues and a need to change HER. To an African man, it was natural that the creator be a woman afterall it is women/females who are give birth--carry the child or baby animal.Females are also the primary caretakers of children and we all know what a mother will do to defend her kids. Notice how we call or refer to Africa as our 'mother' and not father Africa. Nature is refered to as 'mother' because she is the one who gives and takes away. And it is very natural for us to refer to her as such. However at some point, the backlash? agaisnt woman began and i just can't see how GOD could deliberately make the mistakes and slights that you find handed out to women esp in the OT. God don't roll like that.Those men decided to spin it their own way and erase HER.

MARY? MARY? MAAAAAAAARY? MARIA?? That woman was probably used to further the anti-woman agenda than any other. The Catholic church decided that thru Mary, they would now control all of womanhood. I
wonder what people would think/feel if it was said that Mary was not
a virgin when she had him. And what is wrong with that?? What? It is we humans that have ill feelings/thoughts about bastards. Not God. It is us who decide to judge/mock/ostracize children born out of wedlock.Not God.And since they got married, he wouldn't even have been a bastard but no, thats still not good enough eh? Remember it was us who wanted this man to come riding into town looking like a King.They wanted to make him their king. Not God.Not Christ. Folks couldn't get with that whole 'riding on a donkey' bila throne ish. Wha??

It is the people whom from DAY 1 wanted everything to be PERFECT--for Jesus to be rich, powerful (like an earthly king powerful),GRAND and yes the mother should be no less than 'unblemished' herself.
So Mary was probably just your average girl in love lakini she was spun and spun and spun and turned into this perfect virgin obedient sort of inhuman relic/icon and all women were/are to emulate this inorder to be acceptable to society/the church. I mean look at what they did to the priests. You tell me how normal that is for a young man (heck any man under 60) to live life without sex ati to 'please God' by devoting only to Him. Please, the church knows very well why they wanted those men to abstain and it had little to do with God. Why then did God give you a dayum ####?? And is it a sin to ask a priest whether they masterbate? BTW this is a serious q. Haiya is it a sin? hahaha!! I betchu it is. I betcha were supposed to believe that priests just......pray:)

Notice that for centuries, even if this practice is clearly against nature (and i'm not even talking about the pedos),someone will simply ask--does it matter? *shakes head*
Why is the mention of Jesus brothers and sisters so fleeting and open to 'all kinds of interpretation'? Its almost as if the thought that Mary could have had sex is just tooooooooo scandalous....and hence we continue with this insisting that things remain only as we 'expect' to see them.

And as for Jesus being a black woman but God seeing that enyewe nobody would have been ready for that at the time...hapana. Don't sway away from your thoughts. You are right to wonder. Remember that in the past, racism was not such a big issue like it is today coz trust they would have found a way to replace that word 'wooly' with skrait! And if God felt nothing about sending Jesus in as a humble man on a donkey--a shepard instead of a king, then surely God would not have cared whether folks were ready for a woman or not...no?

[KEMINOKANA]

>Interesting that someone has said that Jesus could have been
>a black woman. For one IT MATTERS a lot in my opinion that his
>race has so drastically been changed to suit the current
>'economically' top one-white.

Nefertiti,

I find your posts to be very pregnant with insightful points. However, on this one, the bible, I believe its proverbs, asks, "why should you discriminate against a man because the sun has changed his skin?". That's not the exact quote but it's close to it. Also, remember Jesus was a jew and as we know, jews are white skinned although white people dont consider them white. And the jews came from people like abraham whom you could say are very close to adam. So i think God is white. We are black only because the sun changed our skin color. Our bodies had to change the amount of melanin on the skin to adapt to the harsh african sun.

However as you say, there is a conflict since scientists believe man originated from africa. So it's possible that man was originally black only for some to whiten upon leaving africa. But the question is, why havent slave descendants that came to the cold USA whitened? Some are as dark as charcoal.

[nefertiti]

>>Interesting that someone has said that Jesus could have
>been
>>a black woman. For one IT MATTERS a lot in my opinion that
>his
>>race has so drastically been changed to suit the current
>>'economically' top one-white.
>
>Nefertiti,
>
>I find your posts to be very pregnant with insightful points.
>However, on this one, the bible, I believe its proverbs, asks,
>"why should you discriminate against a man because the sun has
>changed his skin?". That's not the exact quote but it's close
>to it. Also, remember Jesus was a jew and as we know, jews are
>white skinned although white people dont consider them white.
>And the jews came from people like abraham whom you could say
>are very close to adam. So i think God is white. We are black
>only because the sun changed our skin color. Our bodies had to
>change the amount of melanin on the skin to adapt to the harsh
>african sun.
>
>However as you say, there is a conflict since scientists
>believe man originated from africa. So it's possible that man
>was originally black only for some to whiten upon leaving
>africa. But the question is, why havent slave descendants that
>came to the cold USA whitened? Some are as dark as charcoal.


Sorry i hadn't seen your reply earlier keminokana.Anyway i would not have a problem with Christ being straight haired, blue eyed white if this was the true representation of him. However history shows that this is highly unlikely. Even the fact that jews today are white is not really as releveant. I found a couple of sites for you that might be interesting. My intent was to find the West African jews whose dna matches that of ancient jewish high priests (not the Igbo) but unfotunately, i was unsucessful.Howvwever i did find another group.Remember DNA don't lie:D. We are well aware of Ethiopian jews (who are also not white)but the even more darker complexioned ones seem to often be ignored.

http://www.genomicart.org/genome-chap5.htm

http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abs...en-levite.html

It is highly unlikely that white skinned individuals could have survived such hot climates let alone thrived. The very fact that this man's hair was wooly to me says it all--not curly but wooly.Your quote about judging one's skin color is vey true but why then did they change it? Why? And how does/did it help or hinder maters in terms of race relations today and race history btw black and white?

There has been a lot of talk about the black maddona.
http://www.saxakali.com/suzar/madonna.htm

I can't remember who it was that said that for the longest time, the Polish were the butt of jokes (lol as usuall) but this time because they would worship a black maddona full with African features. And as said above, it very true that if you google her today, you will find all sorts of black madonnas all with with euro features but darkskinned. Some sites claim that she's called black madonna because the painting gathered soot over the yrs and the people just decided to leave it like that....hehehe

Anyhoo ati God is white???? *shock and horror* NOoooooooooooooo!!! hhehehehe hell no!:D
I'm kidding:D I'm sure if he (she?) lol wants to, somedays God may decide he wants to be white......why not? Maybe on wednesdays:D

I do not mind if he's African, blue, green, pink...

The next time you are in a library or bookstore, pick up the famed book 'The color purple'. Ignore all the negative or ujuaji opinions that other people may have about it and just have a read.You may have watched it already but buy it and READ it...... from the beginning now:). There is a very interesting convo btw Shug and Celie about God that i think you might appreciate.Not necessarily to change your mind/convert or anything because that is not my intent, but one that i think is worth checking out.And the rest of the story's worth it too. Hardcover.:)