[ATLian]

>@ATLian
>
>Even putting the Bible aside ...... Once again all I see is
>ignorance of FIRST century SECULAR and JEWISH historical
>writtings.


A'ight TM,

rescue me from my ignorance, let me know your educated take.

[ATLian]

>It’s in bad taste to put words especially worthless ones in
>another person's mouth. I did not say that biblical mastery is
>my preserve and mine alone.

TeeJay, from what you write, you believe that only those who believe in your god and only those who have your holy spirit in them can understand the bible. You’ve claimed numerous times that people like me just cannot get the bible and what it’s explicit or implicit messages are because we don’t have the holy spirit in us. At the same time you've implied that you understand the message loud and clear because you have the holy spirit in you. That’s what I call condescending, and that’s why I say you need to get off your high stool and wake up and smell the coffee!



> Do me a favor if not yourself. Read carefully
>the whole of Chapter two. Find out why Christ after being
>approached by His mother replies "MINE HOUR IS NOT YET COME."

I have no idea, even after reading the chapter I can’t get what he meant. Perhaps it’s because I don’t have the holy spirit thingi in me to show me the hidden meaning. I hope you don’t mind using your holy spirit thingi to decipher it for me.



>Indeed Christ
>was replying to Mary’s unspoken thought,to the expectation she
>cherished in common with her people. She hoped that He would
>reveal Himself as the Messiah, and take the throne of Israel.
>But the time had not come.

This is where I call your bluff. How the hell do you know what Mary was thinking, especially if it’s unspoken? Maybe what happened is Jesus and his crew came in, they went and sat next to Mary, then they expressed a wanting for some wine, and Mary casually mentioned to them that the wine was over. Period! No hidden agendas or symbolic stuff, just a mother casually telling her son that the wine was over, same way my mum would tell me maybe the chapos are over at a certain wedding. Why do you assume bila evidence that it was symbolic? Like I said, many things in the bible are in black and white, and you aren’t meant to read any more out of them than what is written down.

[ATLian]

>But to you everything in the bible is just black and white. I
>have been here too long to see some of your arguments.

Come on, even I know that not everything in the bible is black and white, a lot of the stuff is symbolic.

Believers use the freedom of interpretation to their advantage to the fullest. When it suits them, a statement can be black & white, and other times it can be symbolic.

First, the believers insist that their interpretation of the symbolic things in the bible is the one and only correct one, and some go ahead and claim that non-believers can’t even interpret stuff correctly since they don’t have the power of the holy spirit in them to enable them to interpret correctly. That’s an arrogant condescending and totally flawed approach to reasoning.

Secondly, when stuff is black and white but it makes god look bad, believers try to sugar-coat the situation and bring in some non-existence symbolism. On the other hand, when god does despicable things, I’ll call it as it is – EVIL! e.g. when god accepts a human sacrifice or kills a million innocent kids, that is evil and wrong. For a believer, it’s too painful to realize and accept that his god is doing something which a rational man can see is evil and immoral, so he will re-mix and sugar-coat the situation so that god doesn’t come out as bad. That’s why when god kills Job’s innocent kids, the believer overlooks that atrocity, and instead points out that Job had great faith and god is great because he cured him of his sores and gave him 28 more kids. WTF?



>Now who should prove to the other the Christ was married. It
>is clear that in the scriptures it is not present.

So what. There’s no mention of Jesus ever taking a crap in the bible, doesn’t mean he didn’t do it. My point is this – there are many things which men at that point in time used to do as normal men e.g. get circumcised, get baptized, get a career, get married, etc. The bible points out that Jesus was a normal jamaa till he turned 30, so it makes sense to assume he was all those. If he wasn’t, then the bible would have categorically pointed it out.

If it's hard evidence you want - it’s a fact that the guys who compiled the bible chose the final 66 books from more than 100 books available. There are some gospels out there which didn't make the final cut coz the compilers of the bible thought they'd mess up with the image of Christianity they were trying to potray. e.g. the gospel of Thomas which says that Christ had a twin brother, and also the gospel of Phillip which says:

"There were three who always walked with the Lord: Mary, his mother, and her sister, and Magdalene, the one who was called his companion. His sister and his mother and his companion were each a Mary.

... the companion of the [Savior is] Mary Magdalene. [But Christ loved] her more than [all] the disciples, and used to kiss her [often] on her [mouth]. The rest of [the disciples were offended] . . . They said to him, "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you as (I love) her?"

I think we can all agree that Jesus is a moral upright guy who wouldn't be kissing anyone other than his wife on the mouth. And that the word "companion" means more than just a friend...



>Even at th
>Cross Christ gives John the responsibility of taking care of
>his widowed Mother Mary.

I didn’t know Mary was a widow when Jesus died, what happened to Joseph?

[Oh-girly]

God doesn't say Gays should be stoned......, The bible says that.
The bible also says not love one another....( I guess this includes gays)

[m kenya]

>Many believe that mary magdalene was Jesus' wife but the
>bible deliberately portrays her as a prostitute to camouflage
>this fact. I find this very unsettling. Did Jesus really
>marry?

Dispense with the long winded stories,....
Jesus Christ is the Husband, the Church is the bride. Period. That is the only celestial explanation for Christs coming...
The Bible talks about him coming back for the second time for'His bride' ie the church, which should be "spotless".
Talking of mary magdalene is debasing the argument, she could never measure up coz Jesus ministry was to the whole world.
Tis very true that God places a premium on marriage. In the very sense that a woman gives up her name and assumes that of the husband, the church assumes the name of christ "Christ-ian"
About magdalene being a whore, it is true..however in the sense that the church, (me and you)have strayed from the God's love and seek love from elsewhere (a wife seeking loving from another man) while the true guy is still there..
Hey i didnt come here to preach.....that is the message for today.:9
Christ is still married to the Church hata wa leo....mary magda who? was a mortal like every one else...Down with Da vinci.

"will you lead or stand in the shadows?"
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...93_haka298.jpg

-the Umma
Q tip

[ATLian]

>God doesn't say Gays should be stoned......, The bible says
>that.
>The bible also says not love one another....( I guess this
>includes gays)


Oh-girly,

kwanza, isn't the Bible god's holy and inspired word? Which means that whatever is there can be attributed to him. That aside, god categorically states that death should be the punishment for gays:

Leviticus 20
20:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ....
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

God is totally 100% anti-gay. Funny thing is (king) David and (Saul's son) Jonathan had a homosexual relationship, and god still blessed David many times over. I guess that's the bible for you, contradiction after contradiction.

So you're right - you shouldn't love gays, you should kill them all according to god!

[picasso]

I wouldn't entirely trust in the bible as a source of information pertaining to the entire Life of Jesus Christ because it is abundantly clear that accounts of his life from his childhood to the true beginning of his ministry are absent. Therefore you can quote as much scripture as you desire but there is no documented evidence in scripture to counter Dan Brown's Assertions in the Da Vinci Code.

Having said this, I do not believe that whether Christ was married is of consequence to what his ministry was desired to achieve. So i say this, if he was married ...so what?? does that now mean that he was not who he said he was?? Does it give any less meaning to his ministry??

John 1:1-18 "1.In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ...14.The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only..."

[Oh-girly]

correction.
About not loving gays, That came out totally wrong. I meant to write " the bible says to love one another (this includes gays).
I don't believe everything i read in the bible but that doesn't take away the moral (defination is subjective) teaching of the bible. The bible was written by humans, humans make errors, like i did by writing " not love one onother". anyway I don't understand if the bible is the innate word of God, why are there different versions of it?

Besides like one blogger wrote the bible is one contradiction after another.
here are a few that have been found

GOD GOOD TO ALL OR JUST A FEW?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.


IS JESUS EQUAL TO OR LESSER THAN?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

RIGHTEOUS LIVE?
Ps.92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
Isa.57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."

one of my favorites
DO YOU ANSWER A FOOL?
PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

[TeamManager]

>A'ight TM,
>
>rescue me from my ignorance, let me know your educated
>take.

ATLian,

The number of times I have given you a list of available list of First century historical books .....if you bother then we would be talking about different issues.

[TeamManager]

> Funny thing is (king) David and
>(Saul's son) Jonathan had a homosexual relationship, and god
>still blessed David many times over. I guess that's the bible
>for you, contradiction after contradiction.

Where do you dig up your list of lies?