[satjas]

Hey Guys!!

Another sad day when people get killed in the name of God.....yet we cannot come forth and condemn these 'isms'. Now all the adherents of these 'isms' will deny that they preach 'murder' yet this is exactly what has happened.

the paradigm shifter.....God's friend.

[Beenie_gal]

aint it racist enough 2 islams.....did u think of wot they feel.
u just blame 'em without the whole story!!!


~~From the fullness of the heart, the mouth speaks~~

[Coach]

>Hey Guys!!
>
>Another sad day when people get killed in the name of
>God.....yet we cannot come forth and condemn these 'isms'. Now
>all the adherents of these 'isms' will deny that they preach
>'murder' yet this is exactly what has happened.


What hapenned in London is horrible! I live 10 mins from Kings Cross where most of the people lost their lives. Two very close members of my family were lucky to have boarded the Picadilly Line 10 minutes later (otherwise they'd be caught up in it all).

First of all, it is WRONG to target non-combatants, whether the terror is carried out by a state or a religious group. In this particular case, why is London the target and not Geneva, Stockholm, Oslo, Brussels etc.? Why was New York and Madrid targetted by these lunatics? Why would anyone take their time and risk their lives in killing innocent people? The most obvious reason is that the nations that are involved in the "War against terror" are being targetted for their participation in the...

1) killing of innocent people around the world (Over 25 000 in Iraq and over 10 000 in Afghanistan [non-combtatants that is)

2) The locking up of innocent people in GITMO, Belmarsh etc.

3) The support for Israel in their agression againts poor Palestinians.


If we agree that a life in Iraq has equal worth to a life in London, then the out-pour of grief would be equal when lives are lost. But unfortunately, when people (unpeople) are killed in Iraq/Afghanistan by the "coalition" of the coerced (or in Africa through genocide, civil wars, hunger etc.) the media reports it as if it was cattle that was caught up. But when western lives are concerned, there is usually a "humanisation" of the victims.

satjas,
Multi-national companies in collaboration with western countries cause the death of millions of poor people around the world every year. The biggest enemy of the world (esp poor people) is one -ism, Capitalism - and the liberalisation of economies.

It is only logical to put all the energy in adressing a malign tumour ("Globalisation", IMF, WB, WTO etc) than to keep whining about a flu (War on Terror).

USA and GB killed more people in Iraq than (the USA) killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki; why is it that the media and the people of the west are more concerned about the (less than 5000) that have died due to 'non-state terrorosim' in the west? Are those lives worth more?

[ATLian]

Coach, are you justifying terrorism?


>3) The support for Israel in their agression againts poor
>Palestinians.

Coach, if you weren't a Muslim, would you be pro-palestinian? I'm 100% pro-Israeli in that struggle, and no, it has nothing to do with religion, since I don't believe in any of the gods both sides worship, plus I have zero time for people for fight "under" god or "for" their god.

My main reason I'm anti-Palestinians is the Palestinians (and the Islamic Arabic world) don't want to just get Palestinian land - they want total annihilation of the Jews. They don't want Israel and Israelis to exist, period. If they did manage to get enough power to oust the Jews, they wouldn't just watch them leave, they'd make sure they leave in coffins. There's no way I'd support a cause that is for the genocide of another race, especially one which is 100% driven by gods that may not even exist.

My other reason is it's NOT a land issue. Of the land that used to be Palestine, 15% is Israel. The other 85% is now Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Why is it only this 15% that means so much when there's 7 times that land out there. Of course the reason is coz the 85% is owned by Muslim countries...




>>Hey Guys!!
>>
>>Another sad day when people get killed in the name of
>>God.....yet we cannot come forth and condemn these 'isms'.
>Now
>>all the adherents of these 'isms' will deny that they preach
>>'murder' yet this is exactly what has happened.
>
>
>What hapenned in London is horrible! I live 10 mins from Kings
>Cross where most of the people lost their lives. Two very
>close members of my family were lucky to have boarded the
>Picadilly Line 10 minutes later (otherwise they'd be caught up
>in it all).
>
>First of all, it is WRONG to target non-combatants, whether
>the terror is carried out by a state or a religious group. In
>this particular case, why is London the target and not Geneva,
>Stockholm, Oslo, Brussels etc.? Why was New York and Madrid
>targetted by these lunatics? Why would anyone take their time
>and risk their lives in killing innocent people? The most
>obvious reason is that the nations that are involved in the
>"War against terror" are being targetted for their
>participation in the...
>
>1) killing of innocent people around the world (Over 25 000 in
>Iraq and over 10 000 in Afghanistan [non-combtatants that is)
>
>2) The locking up of innocent people in GITMO, Belmarsh etc.
>
>3) The support for Israel in their agression againts poor
>Palestinians.
>
>
>If we agree that a life in Iraq has equal worth to a life in
>London, then the out-pour of grief would be equal when lives
>are lost. But unfortunately, when people (unpeople) are killed
>in Iraq/Afghanistan by the "coalition" of the coerced (or in
>Africa through genocide, civil wars, hunger etc.) the media
>reports it as if it was cattle that was caught up. But when
>western lives are concerned, there is usually a "humanisation"
>of the victims.
>
>satjas,
>Multi-national companies in collaboration with western
>countries cause the death of millions of poor people around
>the world every year. The biggest enemy of the world (esp poor
>people) is one -ism, Capitalism - and the liberalisation of
>economies.
>
>It is only logical to put all the energy in adressing a malign
>tumour ("Globalisation", IMF, WB, WTO etc) than to keep
>whining about a flu (War on Terror).
>
>USA and GB killed more people in Iraq than (the USA) killed in
>Hiroshima and Nagasaki; why is it that the media and the
>people of the west are more concerned about the (less than
>5000) that have died due to 'non-state terrorosim' in the
>west? Are those lives worth more?

[sleeze]

> Now he adherents of these 'isms' will deny that they preach
>'murder' yet this is exactly what has happened.


eerr... collateral damage????? (From the manuscripts of the "secret organisation of the friends of al-qaeda")

P.S. Americans drop a bomb in a wedding in Iraq and all they can manage to say is "Oooooops"!!! eeeishhhh SHINDWE!!!

[Coach]

ATLian,
>Coach, are you justifying terrorism?

Terrorism is bad, no matter who the perpetrators are.



>
>>3) The support for Israel in their agression againts poor
>>Palestinians.
>
>Coach, if you weren't a Muslim, would you be pro-palestinian?
>I'm 100% pro-Israeli in that struggle, and no, it has nothing
>to do with religion, since I don't believe in any of the gods
>both sides worship, plus I have zero time for people for fight
>"under" god or "for" their god.
>My main reason I'm anti-Palestinians is the Palestinians (and
>the Islamic Arabic world) don't want to just get Palestinian
>land - they want total annihilation of the Jews. They don't
>want Israel and Israelis to exist, period. If they did manage
>to get enough power to oust the Jews, they wouldn't just watch
>them leave, they'd make sure they leave in coffins. There's no
>way I'd support a cause that is for the genocide of another
>race, especially one which is 100% driven by gods that may not
>even exist.

I would definately support the Palestinians cause, even if I wasn't a Muslim. Just the same way as I support any people who are terrorised in the world.

ATLian, Muslims and Jews never had any major problems until the creation of the state of Israel. They have lived side by side for a long time and tension started when the Zionist state of Israel was created. On the other hand, they have been terrorised by Christians for thousands of years and even later sought refuge in Muslims lands.

At the moment, there are many Palestinians who are calling for the total destruction of Israel, and you can;t blame them after seeing how they have been treated in the last 50 years or so. They have reached a stage that they are ready to blow themselves up in order to kill some Israelis. These are indeed horrendous and desperate measures that are brought about by the ill-treatment they face.
USA is forced to support the cause of Israel because the strong Jewish lobby is very influential. They have a similar power base in UK and in France, but the support from the latter has been much less. The USA also has a lot to say in the UN, how else could you explain the hundred of UN resolutions against Israel that have been ignored for almost 50 years and Iraq was invaded after violating a few dodgy ones?

Muslims generally have no problem with Jews as a people or a faith (Judaism), but the problem is with Zionists who seek to destroy the lives of Palestinians and act a power house in the region.

If you want to kill the mosquitos (terrorists), you have to drain the swamp (their breeding ground - oppressed poor people). It is the logical thing to do instead of running around with a can of Doom.


>My other reason is it's NOT a land issue. Of the land that
>used to be Palestine, 15% is Israel. The other 85% is now
>Egypt, Syria and Jordan. Why is it only this 15% that means so
>much when there's 7 times that land out there. Of course the
>reason is coz the 85% is owned by Muslim countries...

There are millions of Palestinians living in Jordan today as refugees, they aren't killed or their houses are not demolished. All they want is to return to their homes but that has been the thorn in the eye in the "peace process" all these years. As for land issue, the UN drawn borders has been violated grossly by the Israelis. They have taken over 70% of the land that was allocated to Palestinians by the UN. What they are today "giving back" is land that is not theirs (according to the UN) and has cost them a lot to protect.

I'm not naive to think that this problem would be resolved in a short time; but in this conflict, there is an opressor and opressed. The opressor holds all the cards and can decide how things will end. The Palestinians don't even have an army or a proper police force while their foes have over 200 nuclear warheads and only a couple of countries in world have a larger military arsenal.

The problem with the world today is that people tend to think that it is somehow acceptable for states to have the monopoly to terrorise populations while non-state terrorists are potrayed as the "enemy". If the Mau Mau were fighting the British today, they would also be labelled terrorists just as Hamas are for fighting for their land.

All types or terrorism is totally unacceptable...but, one needs to adress the issues that lead to non-state terrorism. Why does Osama hate USA and GB? Is it because they are rich? Or democratic? Or is it because they support the dictators in the Middle east, control their oil and bomb them to pieces when they don't take orders from Washington?

Osama and Saddam have been potrayed as the "bad guys" the last few years, but they were also supported by the USA and funded by the CIA to tend to American interests. They dared question the puppet master and that's why they have become the enemy. Arafat did the same and Mugabe also did the same. They still support Musharaf, Karimov (of Uzbekistan), Saudi monarchs, Hosni Mubarak...not because they are democratic leaders but because they never defy orders from Washington. Saddam, Arafat and Mugabe have always been dictators, but they were American dictators before, that is until they grew a brain!

If you lived outside the bubble (free from the influence of the mass media that serves the interests of the govts), you'd see the world politics in a whole different perspective.

[sosodef]

"If we agree that a life in Iraq has equal worth to a life in London, then the out-pour of grief would be equal when lives are lost. But unfortunately, when people (unpeople) are killed in Iraq/Afghanistan by the "coalition" of the coerced (or in Africa through genocide, civil wars, hunger etc.) the media reports it as if it was cattle that was caught up. But when western lives are concerned, there is usually a "humanisation" of the victims. "

THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH,WE WILL EVENTUALLY WIPE EACH OTHER OUT,EVEN THE WILD ANIMALS HAVE A SACRED SET OF RULES,TARGET THE WEAK AND UNWARY ONLY,YET WE AS HUMANS WITH ALL THE I.Q ABOVE ALL ANIMALS HAVE PROVEN UNWORTHY OF OUR VERY OWN EXISTANCE. I SAY F0**K THE WORLD!!!

[Mand meru]

Down with terrorism!!
Down with a religion whose base is build on bloodshed and whose rallying cry is always fatwa on 'infidels'.
Down with the so called palestinian cause. How comes they palestinian don't complain about the atrocities committed against them by syrians and egyptians.
Down with mass stupidity in the name of blind worship.
Fed up with dogmas and brainswashing in the name of life-here-after!

[Coach]

Mand Meru,

>Down with terrorism!!

Down with terrorism! Both STAE and NON-STATE terrorism!



>Down with a religion whose base is build on bloodshed and
>whose rallying cry is always fatwa on 'infidels'.

Fatwa = Legal opinion



Down with any legal opinion (whether state or religious) that leads to the destruction of innocent lives!



>Down with the so called palestinian cause. How comes they
>palestinian don't complain about the atrocities committed
>against them by syrians and egyptians.

I haven't seen any Egyptian or Syrian tanks and caterpillars roll in Palestinian territoties killing people and destroying houses. If they do...DOWN WITH THEM TOO!



>Down with mass stupidity in the name of blind worship.

Down with all types of stupidity!




>Fed up with dogmas and brainswashing in the name of
>life-here-after!

If people choose NOT to believe in the here-after, it's their choice. No one should be hurt or persecuted for that!

[satjas]

Hey guys

Now we know that the guys who carried out this atrocity in London were british nationals of some asian country....and they all just happened to have islamic names. But they were not intending to kill people because good believers never do so. They were simply misguided believers.....lets say a very small percentage of the 2 billion or so believers in the world. If we take it to be 0.5 %, thats about 1 million misguided believers........so let's try and work it out what is the common denominator?? what makes them all do very similar things, all in the name of religion? Oh, obviously its not islam!! They are just confused...............................Wake up people!!!!!!!!!! it is not the people that are bad, its the ideology, that is what makes them do these things. I may not like you but may like your ideology. That there is the problem. They fight amongst themselves but stand united by the common denominator. Why, why why is it always got to do with religion if it is a peaceful religion???????

the paradigm shifter......God's friend.